The Ideal Client, The Ideal Barber: A Two-Way Street

This week Bree and Cassy discuss expectations barbers have of clients, what clients should expect from their barber, and what professionals should expect from the industry. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:03

Welcome back to Philosophy of the Barber. Today's episode we will be discussing expectations. Both uh barbers' expectations of customers, clients, uh, as well as clients' expectations when they're walking into a barber shop. So why don't we first start off with um the the rule of threes, which are the three expectations that customers typically have of anything. Not just barbers. They want it cheap, they want it fast, they want it quality, yep. And the rule is you can only ever give them two of the three.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

That's fair.

SPEAKER_06 0:42

That's fair. And I don't blame them for that expectation, because I have that same expectation when I'm on the customer end of things. But let's face it, if you're gonna be fast and you're gonna be quality, you ain't gonna be cheap. Yeah. And if you're not gonna be fast, but you're gonna be cheap and quality, well, you ain't gonna be fast. Yeah. And then if you're going to be cheap and fast, sure as that ain't gonna be quality.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

I that's actually the first time I've ever heard that.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

What?

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Three-point rule. Really? Yeah. What do they teach you an empire? I don't the three-point rule, apparently, at least not that I remember. That's interesting. Very wise, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Yeah, no, that actually that makes a lot of sense. And you kinda you gotta pick your two. Like what what two have you decided you picked? Ooh, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

I guess I wouldn't say cheap, but I I try not to be too expensive. Well, you're like going right. Yeah, like I'm it's average rate, but I definitely quality. Quality is is a given. And I don't fast is subjective for me in the sense of like I Like you're not given hour haircuts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

So like you're being efficient. Yes. You're being mindful of other people's time and the value of that. Yes. So like you're not, you know. Yeah, so I guess we'll go quality fast.

unknown 2:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:13

Yeah. Same. Yeah. Which is why we're not cheap. Mm-hmm. And I mean, just this week we had the example of someone who prioritizes the cost of haircut. Yes. Over the other two.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Yep. I had a gentleman walk in this week. I had availability to give him a haircut beard groom that he was looking for. He asked me for my price before he sat down. I I told him my going rate, and it was outside of his budget. So we were just not the the fit for each other, and I wished him a good day. And it was easy as that. Yep. No hard feelings. I don't expect anybody to jump out of pocket for a service by any means if they can't.

SPEAKER_06 2:54

Yeah. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Like no harm, no foul.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

And it's it's in those moments though that I I almost be being so new and being a new business owner, I almost for a second want to price cut myself. I almost for a quick second question like, am I charging too much? And but then I remember I am it's it's just the going rate around here, realistically. If you want to go to a barber shop and get a barbershop service where you're actually getting the hot towel, the all that, then you're you're gonna be paying the same rate everywhere in town.

SPEAKER_06 3:29

Right. And that is kind of what we said after he left was like, mm-hmm. Unfortunately, he's gonna be disappointed in every barbershop that is downtown because we all charge about the same. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

Which I think I think m is nice that we that that's just what the rate's at here. Mm-hmm. Kind of for everybody unspoken across the board. And no one's jumping to try to outlandishly compete with that or nobody's trying to like undercut significantly. Yeah, it's just everybody's kind of playing the same fair game here.

SPEAKER_06 4:06

Though there is also the point of how to measure your value, because I mean, how when I first opened my first location, the going rate for a haircut was legit half half of what it is now. Only 12 years ago, the going rate was half. However, it had been flatlined stagnant in New Hampshire at that price for a very, very long time. Really? Yes. It was only in the last decade or so that prices actually started going up. Which we're long overdue for that anyway, so like we're still cheaper than a lot of places around the country. Despite our cost of living being significantly higher than I'd say, anywhere in the middle of the country. Yeah. So given that is the case, we're only now catching up to what haircut costs should have been at a steady rate of increase over time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like the salon end of the house certainly kept up with going rates as far as the cost of uh products and services. Whereas barbershops, because they were trying to survive, and especially here in New Hampshire, like you couldn't find a barbershop with a proprietor younger than fifty for a really, really long time. Yeah. Like my barber instructor, when he was 35, he was the youngest barber in the state for several years.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_06 5:34

It's wild to think about. Yeah, so that tells you the state of barbering in this state and area for a while.

SPEAKER_04 5:44

So that being said, like It's interesting to think about how much it's changed in really just a short amount of time.

SPEAKER_06 5:52

Just in my career, yeah. It's changed a lot. Yeah. Like seeing the entire industry really jump on the social media uh ride of like the Instagram and like visual art and everything, like displaying your work, your digital portfolio, and seeing the birth of that and like having it take off and all of these uh barber conventions, like all of that stuff. Oh yeah. Crazy. Like I went to one of the the first Connecticut Barber Expos. I even competed in one of two of their Did you competitions. That was back when like they were in they weren't at Mohican Sun, like they were in a much smaller convention.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Much smaller then at that point.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

But yeah, so anyway, back to our subject of expectations. Um so like that it's fair for for that um gentleman to have his expectations of what he needs for a barbershop. It's a lot harder to find. Yeah. But like, I think there might be one barbershop downtown that would suit his needs. Because I mean, number of barbershops around here over the years has gone up significantly. So that means there's more variety, there's more ability to find what you're looking for, which is great. Because not everybody can be everything to everybody. Yeah. And nor should you hold yourself to that standard. That's a terrible expectation to have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's it also is like, what expectations are you holding yourself to? Mm-hmm. And you know, what do you want from a customer? Like, what are your base level expectations for behavior, demeanor, whatever, when a customer comes in?

SPEAKER_04 7:36

I feel like my expectations vary client-to-client. Newer client, I expect. Honestly, I kind of expect almost a little confusion or a little like skepticism? Yeah, because usually when you're when you wind up in my chair for the first time, especially since I'm a new barber shop, it's either because you're like unhappy with your current haircut or your current barber situation, or you're in just like a constant make like limbo between barbers and just don't know or are seeking new advice on their hair because they want to hear something different. And so there's always a lot of like, will you be the one that I can trust with my hair and to like actually give me something that I'm gonna want and feel good with and like trying to say, yeah, and and listen to what I'm trying to say, because unfortunately, too many times do I hear them saying that they specifically said they didn't want something, and then that's exactly what the barber did. And my biggest thing, because so many, so many men starting out don't know what they want to do with their hair. They're kind of just like short on the sides, not too long on the top, and they're just they really don't know what they want to do. And but one of the things that I try to focus on are like what are things you do not like? What are things you can't stand? Do you can you not stand when your hair is touching your ears, or when you can feel it touch the nape of your neck, or when your cow like potes up in the back? Would you rather that be trimmed really short so you just don't even have to deal with it? Important consultation question. Yeah, and I focus honestly more on the what they don't like and just really build my haircut off of that platform because then I'm at least getting rid of all of their nitpicky parts of them that they don't like. And then we can work towards if if I if it's not the perfect ideal haircut at the end of the day, then we can work towards something, but then I'm not at least he's not leaving there like, oh, I asked her, she asked me about this cowlick, and the here it is, you're having to fix it same day.

SPEAKER_06 9:46

Or well, and it's it's making sure that the things that they measure needing a haircut by. Yes. Going, we're gonna take care of those, make sure they stay away as long as possible. And so that's putting their priorities first. Yes. It's the um we're not trying to achieve a uh magazine style or a platform style or anything like in like that realm of like artistic expression. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is practical everyday haircuts. And that's what matters to them. Because I mean, this area is very salt of the earth, like, no nonsense. Like they're regular on like keeping themselves, you know, maintained, but it's most people aren't coming in for a high maintenance haircut that they have to style on a daily basis to make it look good.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Yeah. They really want low-level whatever they can just what makes it easy for them to deal with. Yeah. Well, and makes it their spouse happy too. Yeah, oh yes.

SPEAKER_06 10:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 10:47

I like that that's like their expectations for that are very like their priorities are in order. Like, this is this is somebody's life. You understand the basic priorities of life. Happy wife, happy life. Boom. Alright. Like, I gotta look at me and deal with this. Worst case, I'll throw in a hat. Yeah. But she's gotta look at me, and if I gotta hear her complain about how I look.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

I appreciate when I get requests from head quote headquarters, so to speak. Yes. They're it's funny when some of the gentlemen come in and specifically note what the wife has said to say and not care. And and when I ask more questions, them just repeat back verbatim what was said by the wife. So that way it's that's just all they know.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

They're like this.

SPEAKER_06 11:43

I don't know what she meant by that. I'm only telling you what she told me.

unknown 11:46

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

It's all the information I have for you. I outside of that, I figure it out. Use your best judgment, Barbara. Perfect. Thanks.

SPEAKER_06 11:55

Well, and I even have some uh clients who have uh significant others that will always say something about the hair. No matter what. No matter what. No matter what. Some kind of tweak. There's one little small tweak. Little tweak. But it it it goes, it's like a tennis match of what the tweak is.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

My favorite though is when the the tweak brings you back to the haircut before the t initial tweak. Yes. And it really is just a back and forth of a little longer, a little bit shorter. Yep.

SPEAKER_06 12:28

I feel like it's more of a time issue, not a production issue.

SPEAKER_04 12:33

Yep. But I feel like with my expectation of some of my more regular clients, honestly, some of them I don't expect much from showing up on time. Some of them I expect to show up late.

SPEAKER_06 12:47

So some of them We've learned.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Yeah, you just you learn the curve of people. Some of them I expect it to be a quiet haircut because I know that they just there aren't the chattiest of person. I wait for them to they drive the car when it comes to the conversation.

SPEAKER_06 13:03

Generally speaking, I have pretty f even expectations for customers. But they they're basic bare bones. Like have courtesy and like respect for other human beings.

SPEAKER_04 13:16

I was gonna say, I've never really stumbled across someone just coming in in a bad mood. So like it's usually generally pretty pleasant. Like you just you're courteous, you come in, you're Well, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_06 13:27

Like, I had one particular instance when somebody came in that apparently they'd gotten off a phone call or something that had them livid. Mm-hmm. It wasn't at me. Like, I don't hold any ill feelings, like I I know like I can see your anger, but I know it's not directed at me, so I don't feel unsafe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But even in that state, he has enough courtesy to convey to me, hey, can we have a quiet haircut? Because I need to decompress this. Yeah. And of course. I'm not gonna say a peep to you. And that worked out just fine. And by the end of the haircut, he was calm, which is probably best for his blood pressure. So the fact that, you know, I can be a place where somebody can calm down.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Yes. Is great.

SPEAKER_06 14:14

Yes. I'd say the the longer somebody is my customer, the more expectations I tend to have of them. But that's I feel like that goes both ways. Yes. Because the longer you're a customer of mine, the more you get from me. Yes. The more dedication. Like I have a baseline of like on my worst day, I don't know you from Adam, like people will always get a certain level of basic human decency respect. Now, obviously I'm not perfect, but some people have met me on a bad day. Mm-hmm. And their opinion of me is fair based on their experience. Don't hold that against anybody. But especially in this new situation where I can be a lot less stressed, I'm much more pleasant on a regular basis than I ever was before. Would you agree with that assessment?

SPEAKER_04 15:06

Uh yes. Yes. I feel like there's the I feel like the most common thing I heard was the um intimidation factor. I feel like there's a lot less of that. Really? In this space, yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 15:22

I will never understand what other people think of me.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Yeah. Yeah. I feel that.

SPEAKER_06 15:30

But um along that goes with the my expectations of of regulars are definitely the hey, if you have acquired my phone number, there is officially no excuse for you to no call no-show me.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

Therefore, I will go from a super pleasant person to a very irritated person if you disrespect me in that way. Yes. Without good reason. Like, I always have room for life happening. I I will have compassion for that. But if you don't have a reason, or at least a good one, we are gonna have issues real quick. Especially if you've made an appointment in a way that doesn't have no show protection for me, then we're gonna have to have a difficult conversation. And it's you their it's it's their actions that are causing me to have to have that awkward conversation.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:28

Like, why are you making me have to talk to you? You know by now what you should have done. Yeah. What you need to do with this.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Because at this point, our only hope is a little j just a hint of communication. Mm-hmm. That's it. Just girls. Acknowledgement that you know that you had an appointment set with me today. Yep. And that's it.

SPEAKER_06 16:50

Not none of this ghosting.

SPEAKER_04 16:52

You could you could reach out 15 minutes before your appointment. You could reach out like the time of your appointment. Yes. And just acknowledge that, hey, I'm not gonna be able to make it. I don't even need to know why. I don't care. It the the why is sometimes irrelevant. Yeah. Once it's a no-call no-show behavior, then it's just like, come on, like, why? It's just a matter of of common courtesy, human decency, and just respect for each other's time. Yes. And so that's that's the expectations that I lay for people. Only because look at the reverse. You would be, customers would be livid if barbers just started reaching out five minutes before the appointment. But we still we still take that with stride. Like we just it want the acknowledgement.

SPEAKER_06 17:38

Mm-hmm. Well, and when it comes to our end of things, like if a family emergency happens, like something, like our house is on fire, and we have to do that. We always make sure to communicate as soon as we know something, yeah, we are reaching out going, hey, like we have a snowstorm coming up. And though I'm totally gonna be here during the snowstorm, because we're that close. Yeah, might as well. And we know our customers, they're still gonna show up. Um, like knowing that some of them have different, you know, jobs that are affected by that, I reached out for somebody and went, Hey, do you want to move it to the afternoon? Because I know there's gonna be a lot of snow shoveling happening. Mm-hmm. He's like, actually, you got something today? Yes, sir, I do. I can fit you in anywhere. And so that worked out. But that doesn't work without communication. Yeah. And even more so, like, the system that we happen to use gives them and we can adjust that. The ability to reschedule on their own within so many hours. It's like, use that opportunity. It even has like an automated like computer you can talk to to do that via text message.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Yes. And not just that, the automated line that confirms the appointments, you they can they can just freely respond to that whenever they they can message that and ask it whatever the heck they want. Yep. And we see everything.

SPEAKER_06 19:01

Well, unless it's like an automated prompt, then we don't see it.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Oh yeah, until it needs our help. Right. Until it needs us to jump in because it can't figure out what to do.

SPEAKER_06 19:08

Yeah. It's not AI. We're not there yet. Not yet. But I I do feel like that it's important to really like lay out, alright, what are my expectations of people? Because if you'll if you don't realize that consciously that you have an expectation of somebody and you don't communicate that expectation to them, you have no leg to stand on to be upset when they don't measure up to that expectation because they never even knew it was there. Yeah. And that's in any like relationship, whether it's a friendship, a significant other, like whatever. If you have an expectation, you have a responsibility to communicate that expectation. Otherwise, if you're mad at them, they have no idea why.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Yep. And that's a terrible place to be in. It really is. I feel like with with clients, it's honestly baseline. Like across the board, baseline, my only expectations is you show up to the best of your ability and you pay me for my time. That's it. Yep. That's it. How how you come in, whatever mood you come in with or bavior for that day, is almost irrelevant as far as expectation goes, because I don't expect you to show up the same every time. Right. Because I can't I can't show up the same every time. We're human, it's different. Just like I'm sure the expectation is that they come in and you have a happy go-lucky service, and it's like that every time. But people have bad days. There have been there have been days where I've had some stuff going on in my personal life, and I've not been able to keep myself completely composed at work. And but that's human. We're we're natural. And like I can't blame someone for having an off day. So whatever personality mood you want to come in with is I don't really expect them to behave any kind of way. You know what I mean? It's really just the baseline humanity. Yeah, really just show up and don't treat me like crap, and we're and then everything's fine.

SPEAKER_06 21:11

Well, and I I think like unfortunately, part of part of the things that like spark this conversation is the fact that some people can't measure up, can't seem to measure up to that baseline. And those people do exist. And that's it's okay for them to exist. Yes. But that behavior that behavior is not okay in my space. Not okay in your space. Like those those are like lessons that should be learned. Yes. At the same time, though, there's still wiggle room for individuals in varying circumstances. Like you don't have the same expectation of you know a regular uh you know regular Joe as you do from some of your sensory sensitive kids. Yeah. We adjust with With life situation, like when it comes to behavior. I don't have any expectation of like the state, the mental state that anybody should come in with outside of you should not be disrespectful or angry or like upset towards me.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

Just don't direct any of the emotion and energy my direction and we're fine.

SPEAKER_06 22:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

That's the like we'll meet you where you are.

SPEAKER_06 22:24

Because that's our job.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Yes, exactly. And like I feel like we in times of potential turmoil for clients, whether mentally, emotionally, whatever, that's kind of not necessarily when I want to be there most, but like I feel almost honored when they allow me to be a part of that vulnerable space. Because like if they're having a bad day or stuff's rough at home, like they could have moved their haircut, they could have canceled, they could have not dealt with me, but they felt comfortable enough to potentially be vulnerable and open up about something in my space and to me. And so if that's the case, then it's just I I want that. I want them to feel comfortable enough to be able to have that.

SPEAKER_06 23:06

So whatever I I agree, but I also think that's indicative of the unique space that we created. Yes. Because we're we're very private space one-on-one. I don't think that everybody is afforded that opportunity when you're going into a large shop environment where there's more an expectation to put on a face. Especially if you're going through something difficult. Yeah, yeah. It's the, oh, like it'll be super awkward in this room full of people if I'm looking really depressed, and he picks up on that. Mm-hmm. Whether or not they will or point it out is a different question. That is barber defendant. But you know, people have those thoughts of like, I don't want anybody to like ask me in that environment what's wrong. And so that they'll just have to like brush it off or or lie for the sake of their their own like fragility. Yeah, yeah. And that's fair, like, not everybody wants that sort of a situation. But the the private situations that we have created for our customers allows for that vulnerability, that humanity, that um compassion to be extended in both directions. Like, I mean, I I remember the first time I ever dealt with puffy eyes was like when my first dog passed away. Yeah. I made the mistake of going to work the next day. Yeah. It was a terrible idea. In fact, like the two-year anniversary is tomorrow. Oh. That was a terrible decision on my part. Yeah. Because I do recall as soon as somebody asked, like, where Chloe was, was very like, mm-hmm. She's dead. Yep. And I psh. I don't like to cry in front of anybody. Let alone. Let alone. How awkward do you think other people feel when they see me cry? How are how awkward do you feel when you see me cry? Not as much now. Yeah. We've had more shared time.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

I was gonna say, when you cry, I cry usually.

SPEAKER_06 25:04

We do that together sometimes, like but like at the old place. At the old place when it was like the first year. Yeah, yeah. That's a very different situation. Off putting. Hide in the back.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

I feel like that's how it is most people cry. You're just like, oh okay. I don't I don't know what to do here. Dread these waters.

SPEAKER_06 25:24

I feel like it heavily depends on whether or not you know the reason for them crying. Correct. Like if you know why somebody's crying, it's like, oh, my heart goes out to you. Like, let me get you a tissue. Like, I kind of want to hug you. It depends on the person. We both know I'm not naturally a hugger. No. But it happens.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

It happens to me sometimes. People hug at me. At how do you get hugged at? Well they just come at you with their arms open.

SPEAKER_06 25:53

I feel like being hugged at it means that you have not participated in the hug.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

I don't think you want to sometimes.

SPEAKER_06 25:58

It's not a matter of wanting. I still participate whether I want to or not. Like, I've never just like stood there with my arms down and let somebody hug me. That's awkward.

unknown 26:09

Just imagine.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

You just lift your hands, just your wrist up, just bend your hips and tap their arms.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Thanks.

SPEAKER_06 26:20

What are your minimal expectations for yourself on a daily basis? Like what standards are you on your worst day still holding yourself to?

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Show up before my client does at the beginning of the day. Um and don't leave my towel warmer on at the end of the day. That's a fair expectation. That's baseline, bare minimum. Because again, my again, I don't hold expectations on myself about how I'm gonna feel during the day. I don't put too much expectation on myself on how I'm gonna show up mentally and emotionally. Like of guess, of course, yes, I want to put my best foot forward and but I don't want to put on a face for anybody. Um and I don't want to set the expectation that I have to show up and be this chipper person every single day when it's just not that. It's that and doing that can be exhausting. And so my my bare minimum is just showing up and doing a good job, giving my clients the best quality haircut that I can every day.

SPEAKER_06 27:25

Well, and I feel like that's the best way to support change and progress moving forward is like incremental improvements and making sure that you're holding yourself to a standard that is achievable on your worst day.

SPEAKER_04 27:38

Yes, I because I've made too many mistakes in my past when I was younger, putting all these expectations on myself and setting this bar so, so high, and almost putting the undocumented time limit on these expectations. Like I had to get them done, get them done. I had to check all these boxes and do all these things, and and really I just need to keep my expectations l kind of low and leave myself adaptable and leave myself able to mold to each other like everything that's going on, whether it's it's the client or with the business or with finances or whatever the case may be, because there's there's a lot of different variables going on in life right now, and if I have put a bunch of expectations on myself, there's so many things outside of my control that impact my life every single day. I can't I can't put too much on myself on top of all that.

SPEAKER_06 28:33

Yeah, I mean that becomes an unproductive stress. Because I mean stress can be good, like that's motivation and pushes you to improve, but too much of it's overwhelming. Mm-hmm. Step back for uh a bit from perspective uh for a more broad application of this. That part of me feels like I should have like a counter for how many times we've said expectation so far during this episode. Because it's been a lot.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

It's been a lot. It's been a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:00

I need a thesaurus, we need a different word. But what I want to know what you have as a bar. So I don't say expectation again. Uh for the industry, because I find that from a customer standpoint, most people have a low expectation for people in our industry because they've experienced such negative things. Like their experiences in some places have been just like terrible. So I want to know as somebody in this industry and has been for a few years, like, do you expect more from professionals than you see?

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yes. God, yes.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

Expand upon that, please. Um things, some things I've seen directly through my experience in different shops and working with different barbers, um, and some more so word of mouth what I've heard from client experiences. And I just feel like so often what I've heard from client experiences is in a variety of different ways, boiled down to the barber didn't care, and in layman's service didn't give a shit about the client or the haircut and cared about just getting the service done. And I feel like if the client can tell, if the client feels like you don't care in the short span that they're sitting in your chair, then you must have been doing a really bad job of trying to connect with them.

SPEAKER_06 30:40

Well, that's one of the three C's. Consistency, care. And crap, I just had it. Where'd it go? Qual it no, that's that's a Q. That's a Q! There's a C Uh Ah I can't think of it right now. There are three of them! Anyways, the three of them There are three.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yep, there are three of them.

SPEAKER_06 31:03

Maybe it's communication. It's probably not communication. That should be one of them.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yep, it should be.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

But care, yeah, care's one of 'em. Yeah. Things that you should be like, that's a f fair, reasonable expectation.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

And like like specifically, a client earlier today mentioned that they this was the first time in a long time that they didn't feel rushed. And to feel rushed while you're sitting stationary, not doing anything in a chair, for you to feel rushed is just an uncomfortable feeling for a barber to give a client.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

And I feel like the the things I've seen more directly is is just lack of communication between barbers and their clients as far as scheduling and stuff goes, just not keeping an early enough line of communication. Like if you're if you do have to cancel, like as a barber, if if something comes up as soon as I know something's coming up and I'm not going to be able to partake in that service, my client knows as soon as I know. There's no linger time, there's no wait to figure it out. No, it's my client knows as soon as I know. So if they can make arrangements and they know at the earliest convenience. Because if you're just pushing that off, that's not fair to them. It's just it's inconsiderate, and so when you don't have that that open line, I feel like it's just again coming back to caring, you're just not taking their feelings into consideration. Or their life. Yeah, and it's just it's just really unfortunate because we we have such a small amount of time in the in the day with this person to make potentially such a big impact, and whether it's in a negative way or a positive way, you can still make a big impact in their life. So, like, why not take the opportunity to I don't know, care for 30 to 45 minutes about what the person in front of you is saying?

SPEAKER_06 33:02

Yeah. My goal is always for somebody to leave my presence improved from when they first came into it. Like, if you come in at a B, I want to make you leave at an A.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:15

If you come in at an F, anything above an F is better as long as you leave improved. And and that's not just from a visual perspective. Like, I want your state of being to be improved when you leave my presence. Like, I never want to make somebody feel less than when they came in. That's not my job.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:36

My job is to elevate people.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

We want I want to make people feel better, not worse.

SPEAKER_06 33:42

Right. That's kind of the job. Yeah, that's it. But I'm curious from like a like industry, think bigger. Industry. Like, I mean, I know we're in this little pocket of like, you know, rural New England, but like we we have the internet, we have this window into the worldwide beauty industry. Sorry guys, you're still in the beauty industry. Um jokes on you. Uh like from a education standpoint, access to that, um, development of products, uh you know, those types of things. Like, are you feeling as though the industry is growing and improving in those areas? Or is it like stumbling, flatlining, kind of becoming stagnant in some ways?

SPEAKER_04 34:33

I feel like in some ways, almost becoming stagnant because I feel like the industry, the beauty industry itself is not near as loud as, and I mean this in the nicest way, the amateur beauty industry of social media. As far as the the spin-off videos of how to dye hair and how to cut hair and how to do all these things. I feel like there's so many more um do-it-at-home hacks versus like Redmondo. Yes, yes, exactly. Versus like I and personally what I see a lot of, and I do follow hair pages, and I do go, I've gone to a couple conventions, so like I'm actively in hair industry plugins, but still see a very much a lot of the more I feel like we could do better with like education and honestly trying to get more people in the industry instead of getting them to teach it at home.

SPEAKER_06 35:29

Well, and I don't mind the the Brad Mondos of the world like helping people who especially are on a budget or have like a desire for the hobby, because I've been dying my own hair long before I ever entered the industry. Um so I I appreciate the public being more educated on things because that makes our job easier because we're constantly on a daily basis educating people on the concept of conditioner. Honestly.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

How beneficial it is to just moisturize your hair.

SPEAKER_06 35:59

Let alone any other aspect. So like we're constantly teaching the public because we're working against generations of like just marketing tactics and and lies being told to the public that nobody's gonna call out for whatever reason, money. Uh I just be like, this is not the same. You just because it's a flake doesn't mean it's dandruff. Yeah. Like kind of thing. But you know, you just see head and shoulders, head and shoulders, it must be dandruff, like sort of a thing. So those types of basic things educating the public on, I'm very grateful for. That way nobody hurts themselves, people have better skin and hair quality. I'm all cool with that. But I do find in the barbering industry, some barber-focused like companies, whether they're product lines or whatever, they make the mistake quite often of providing education that works around their products, but that education is still the basics of barbering. And barbers don't need that. Like at a certain point, barbers know that, they get taught that in school, they learn that in the barbershop. Like they want what they're not being taught in the foundationals that they're given. And quite often, in order to achieve that, they need to go across the aisle into the cosmetology end of things to find that education. Number one, the availability of the education, because the salon side of the house has way more education. Yeah. And but also like the techniques.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:32

Like, your typical barber's not gonna be learning haircutting techniques that salons are using. Number one, the likelihood of them having as much long hair experience is lower.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 37:45

Now, those of us who don't shy away from long hair, bring it on. But they have less opportunities to practice those things, or have a need to know those things. But if you got people that are coming in with enough hair to do stuff, you should know how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:00

So having to go searching for that, and unfortunately, having to go searching in an area that is, let's say, very foreign to your typical barber, because statistically, your typical barber is still a male. Now, 20-30% of females, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 38:18

I love that. But there's still a discomfort on the salon side of the house being far more catering to females, just as much as a female going from cosmetology over to barbering would have a little bit of discomfort going, this is a much more masculine environment. So, like asking a trucker to walk into a spa that's full of potpourri and lavender, yeah, like there's there's some awkwardness. It's just it's not their natural environment. Yeah. And that's fine. But like making things more accessible within the comfort areas of the industry, like having education for hairstylists that want to learn more fade cuts. Like, there's plenty of that available now. Yeah. But it doesn't necessarily go both ways. It's almost like you have to like let go of your barber card and cross over to cosmetology in order to be offered those opportunities. Oh yeah. It's weird. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Because like anybody, most of the people that I am aware of that have really pushed themselves to learn in those areas, they no longer really like have pride in being a barber, like identifying themselves as a barber.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:39

They're more the middle ground general haircutter or hair artist. So that way they're not feeling as though they're choosing one world over another. So I've I I wish that things were more accessible overall. And I think that's changing. Like it's it's way different now than it was twelve years ago when I first entered the industry.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

I was gonna say, how do you feel like the industry sits to the bar that you have set for them in comparison to like getting to see the growth and different things that they've done that over the years?

SPEAKER_06 40:14

Well, we both know that I'm a very critical person. Yes. So, I mean any bar that I hold to myself to, especially an industry of professionals, it's like asking me my expectation of doctors. Yeah. You go, I have a higher expectation of doctors than apparently I should. Given my experience. And so that's the case with any professional industry, is I have high expectations of people who consider themselves professionals. So it's very much on a case-by-case basis on whether or not I'm impressed or like just satisfied. Yeah. There's been plenty of times when I'm woefully disappointed. And more because my focus, and this is me, it's not my expectation of everybody else. Like my focus has been more on the craft and the the core purpose of the profession over the aesthetic, the lifestyle, the flex, the culture. I am not someone who participates in those parts of the industry. So your typical barber expo is not gonna be my place. Like I've been to them, I've learned firsthand that this is not my jam. And that's okay. And plenty of people love those aspects of this profession.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

I I I teeter the line. I very much love expos and like that aspect of it, but it's not a constant flex hype environment that I want to live in. I like little snippets.

SPEAKER_06 42:09

It's like going to a theme park.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like very much love love the networking at the expo, love all the different booth setups, love my first one. I got a tattoo. Actually, every year that I've gone to an expo, I've been a model and done a demo cut for somebody. I've been on stage getting my hair cut in some way, shape, or form. And so I love getting those experiences, but that's definitely not the vibe that is in any of the shops that I've ever worked in. It's definitely not that more honestly more popular theme in the industry.

SPEAKER_06 42:45

Yeah, well, I feel like there's there's a couple of different genres of barbering.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:50

And I mean, and there's nothing against any of them.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Like I love different genres of it. I love that there is such a different, everyone has their niche little style.

SPEAKER_06 43:01

But like to have an expectation, because a lot of it is geography. Because that's where your culture is. So, like to have a more urban barber shop, like in rural America, is like I'm sure you'll find your demographic for like a single shop for that. But the ability to have multiple shops that cater to that, if like that's not the majority of your population, that's I mean, around here there's enough, like you need 400 heads. All right, if you're cutting 30-minute haircuts, eight, nine hours a day, five days a week, four hundred heads a month. Yeah. That's all you need. That's not a lot of people. A single barber stays flat out busy all the time, 400 heads. Yeah. Easy math. But that's so one shop who's got, you know, four or five chairs, if you're in, you know, a town of a few thousand, yeah, it's like do they all want that?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 44:01

Or, you know, do they want something that's more akin to the culture there? Like like your motif of like just rugged, as the name says. But it's it's rustic, it's like southern home hospitality, but it's it's relaxing. So that kind of fits with New Hampshire. We're yeah. This is a state of introverts.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

It really is.

SPEAKER_06 44:27

So anything having to do with mountains or wilderness or anything that they're all about that.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

Yep. Outside.

SPEAKER_06 44:35

Yep. If you can like meet on that level, they're all about it. And and or anything that's like historic, because obviously New England. Really old. Really old. Not just from a demographic standpoint. But like there's a lot of old architecture, there's a lot of history here. People here love that history. They want to preserve that. So having things that are throwback, that are, you know, old school reminds them of their childhood or their grandparents. Like they really connect with that. So my design choices of being more on the antique end of things works. I could not imagine being in this pocket where we are of one of those like really minimalist, um, like white, almost nothing, like really cool uh modern light fixtures. Like I could not imagine one of those streamlined type of shops working here. They look great, they photograph really well. They're so satisfying to the eye. And Instagram is just full of them. But I just I could not imagine that working here. In a more urban place? Totally, if that's more of the culture. I could totally imagine something like that in Portsmouth.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:56

Or in Boston, of course.

SPEAKER_02 45:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:58

Um, but not here. So like there's there's a place for everything. Yes, exactly. And so I think it's important to know that, alright, like at an expo, there there's gonna be people who want the custom clipper that has a custom paint job. But then there's gonna be the people who care more about like the quality of the tool.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:18

Like how long is this going to last? Um, you know, how good does it actually work, not how does it look? Like, I don't care about the faceplate, I care about my ability to clean all the hair out of it. Yeah. And so it really does need to be balanced. Like, I loved going to the International Beauty Show in New York. That's where I found the hydropeptide products. Oh. Yeah, that was great. But they had a beauty show going on with the barber show. So, like, they had a barber component to the beauty show. Yeah. But they had a spa thing going on at the same time, and that's where I found that. So that one was really great because they had tons of workshops you could sign up for. Oh, cool. Yeah, and Connecticut Barbs Barber Expo has grown to that size of being able to offer lots of education. Yep. So I think those are great opportunities to find knowledge that you otherwise wouldn't have access to, depending on where you are.

SPEAKER_04 47:12

Yeah, and for those that don't know, I I can't speak for a ton of the S expos, but when I heard education, I automatically assumed haircutting educations. But that's not all of what it is. Nope. Like it's business education. It's it's talking about LLC, it's talking about insurance, it's talking about marketing, it's talking about educations for such a variety of different things.

SPEAKER_06 47:37

Well, and I even came across one recently on um educating hair professionals on how to uh tactics on how to deal with people with sensory issues. Like they actually do workshops for that.

SPEAKER_04 47:48

Oh really? Yeah, good. They should. Mm-hmm. They should. Because it's a it can be an art sometimes.

SPEAKER_06 47:55

Oh yeah. Well, and and learning how to best serve those people so that they can have the best experience as well. Like, this should not be traumatic. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_04 48:05

No, not in any way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_06 48:07

And it's nice to be able to offer a quiet space. Yes. That's not a hustly bustly type of a shop. So that automatically like starts us off in a successful lane. But like learning, like, uh, especially for the first time, like bringing uh their their favorite stuffed animal that they trust. And being able to like introduce them to us. Yep. And you know, having that kind of go-between, be like, oh, can I try this on on your buddy first? And then having uh a tool that's not a professional tool, but like a very quiet tool. That way, if they're really, really sensitive to that thing, it's like not a problem. We have this thing, it cuts hair. It yeah, that's all that matters. It cuts hair. That's what we're here for. Yes. It doesn't have to be, you know, a wall or an Andes clipper or any of that. If it cuts hair and it works well with them, then it's a tool worth having. Mm-hmm. Because it wasn't that long ago where, at least as far as my training was, electric foil, not considered a professional tool.

SPEAKER_03 49:10

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_06 49:11

Now, can you find somebody who doesn't prefer to do that with a skin fade? It's rare. It's rare to find a person who will use, you know, something that'll actually make a baby butt smooth outside of that. In conclusion, any other expectations? One last time, um that we can think of. Alright. With that said, we will see you all next week.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Have a good night.