Resilience in the Salon: Courtney Buch on Apprenticeship & Industry Shifts

Bree and Cassy discuss apprenticeship with special guest Courtney Buch, licensed cosmetologist, who became licensed through and apprenticeship. They talk about state board testing prep, the tests, and pre vs post covid profession. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome back to Philosophy of the Barber. Today is a special day. We have a special third person to enter the conversation. Uh Cassie is here with us again. Welcome, Cassie. And today we have Courtney. Hello. Courtney is a licensed cosmetologist who works at a salon in Plymouth, which is about an hour from where we chill. So today we have a special panel of experience levels variety. We have the full spectrum of hair professionals as far as my Master Barber license, Courtney's cosmetology license, and Cassie having them both. And we have Cassie uh has been in the industry for four years. Coming up on four, yeah. Sweet. I've got 12 to 13. And Courtney has two.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Um, yep, just about two.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

We count the entirety of the apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Um October will be three years.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Nice. Very cool. And that's another thing that we have. We have a variety of education backgrounds.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Because I went to a strictly barber school, you went to a beauty school, and then beauty school's barber program, and then Courtney has done an apprenticeship. Mm-hmm. She's completely crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Oh yeah. I'm young cast.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Uh so first, what was your experience uh doing an apprenticeship? Because that's very uh we'll say not the norm, but still a lovely option.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, um, what part would you like to know? Because there's a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

All of it. Or leave the clip's notes as far as that'll fit into our conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Well, um, it's an 18-month um program. I needed to get 3,000 hours. And so that was basically a full-time job, and then some. And then on top of that, I had to work, you know, at nighttime because of being there all day. Um I had to follow around my um instructor who was the boss, you know, my boss, the uh the owner of Sheik, um, who I've I've actually known for oh god, I don't even know. Uh, since we're like maybe eight or nine. So she, yeah, kind of took me on there, but um watching her, obviously watching the other girls, because they all have different levels of, you know, like where they're at. So I like to see what they're all, you know, their different technique techniques were, but at the same time, I had to make sure that I was watching the techniques I knew that I was going to need to know to pass all of my tests. So um I had to do monthly quizzes that were written out by my instructor, uh, taken from the book mostly, but she would throw a few like salon questions, you know, like greeting people, just like basic things. And I'd have to complete that. She'd correct it, send it in, and I'd send it in along with my hours every day that I had to keep track of, and uh did that for the full 18 months. And yeah, I don't know. It's a lot of work, a lot of work, a lot of stressful days and nights. And there were a lot of boring days and not nights, but yeah, very different.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Now, were the quizzes something that like the instructor took upon herself to do, or is that something that's mandated in the in the apprenticeship license? Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

It's like the same time every month, like the when you first start, so I started on the third, I believe it was around the third. I'd have to make sure that my test was in the state by like by that date every month.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So they didn't used to be as strict because when I had an apprentice at the shop, I did two. Um they didn't used to require that monthly send-in, uh, but they did still require like that you did that and that you logged it. Oh, okay. But I'm sure that given the periodic changes that the state does when it comes to licensing, they want to make sure that people aren't, you know, playing the system or slacking on it's like.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Oh, absolutely. That's why I was curious if it was like a a her thing or a a state thing. Because I was like, that's actually really cool that that initiative is taken because otherwise you could just slack off, or honestly, for the benefit of the person that's apprenticing, like making sure that they're getting the education they need to pass their test. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Right. Well, and that's really what they care about is the you being competent. Like that's what they're measuring is minimum competency. Um, but also it's kind of like with the motorcycle designation that they changed that you used to be able to get a permit whenever, and you could get multiple permits while you were learning to get your motorcycle license, but they made it to where you could only get one because people were abusing it, they were only coming here for the summer, and they're like, Oh, I can drive a motorcycle just with the permit, it's all good to go. Um, so I imagine they also wanted to deter that as far as like say somebody who already had experience cutting hair but wasn't licensed. They're just like, Oh, we'll get an apprentice uh thing, you'll be under me and you can work here in the shop. Yep. Yeah, no, especially given how infrequently we get inspected. Like two to three inspectors, whole state, there's tons of places for them to hit. The likelihood of them hitting you and you getting knocked for that, slim. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah. They did. They came in during my apprenticeship.

unknown 5:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I had to make sure that I had my little name tag. I know. My name tag, yeah. Um, I didn't have it on me. I had it like on the station, so they're like, okay, you make sure you put that on. I know, right? She knows everything. Um, but yeah, no, I had my, you know, had to have my little um apprentice license thing on my station with my face, and they didn't ask me any questions because I don't think even they really know what's requ required when it comes to that, unless they're looking at the book, because not many people do apprenticeships, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Not not it's it's really rare. But yeah, I appreciate that they still keep it as an option. Oh yeah, I know. Because especially if you're not like in your position, you're going you're a a mother of two, and like you're not going straight from high school to this situation. Like it needs to fit within an unorthodox life situation.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yep, work, kids, everything that comes with being an adult. So looking at when when the option came, or uh I guess when the conversation came up with Natalie, the owner, uh, about me working there, the first conversation was, you know, look into school. And I'm like, uh, I don't even know if I could do that. So I'm like, well, night school, maybe if I do that, turns out they were only doing night school in Nashua, which would have been an hour drive for me, and then an hour drive back. And then I was thinking of winters, how does that go? If I miss days, you have to make it up. So I'm like, I already know how winners can be. You can either get like two bad days or you can get like 30, and it's the end almost you know, half the winter. So I knew that wasn't really gonna be much of an option, but not to mention like the cost of it.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

I talked to some, you know, people about loans and you know, financial aid, and even then it was still gonna be really hard to do. And I said to Natalie, you know, I don't think this is going to be an option for me. And she said, Well, just look into an apprenticeship. Had never known that that was an option. So I I know I my my jaw dropped, and I was like, What? Well, I can do that. She's like, Yeah, just you know, look into it. And if it's something you want to do, we can talk about doing that. And I had no idea. It was$75 for my apprenticeship license. The only other thing I had to pay for was like any supplies I wanted, any of my own tools. And it was the things were provided though when I was there, you know, my hot tools, my my shears, my combs, any product, it's all taken care of there. Of course, I wanted to have my own, but uh the only other cost was my tests at the end. So when you compare when you look at the cost difference too, like I do, I don't owe anything.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

You know, that's crazy. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

You know, I've known her for a while, and she was willing to donate a lot of that stuff to me for the cause. Thank you, Bruce. Definitely uh a you know a main factor in why I decided to do it. She tried to get maybe a barber first for a couple years. I said, I don't know if I can do that.

unknown 8:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

I feel like I I can definitely see the huge cost benefit for apprenticing, but I also see on the flip side of that where since you almost got an essentially kind of like a free education, yeah. Flip side of that is you had to do double the amount of hours that someone in the program had to do. For those of you that don't know, like the cosmetology program in school is only a 1,500-hour program.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

And also you have to be really self-driven because you don't have the luxury of a classroom other students to help, you know, and go along with you along the way, and a lot of focus guidance of sit-down classroom time and then clinic floor, like it's a lot more regimented in a school.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

Oh, yeah. Also, with I feel like with apprenticeships, you have to actually make sure you're seeking out your test learning because you're not just running into the things that we cover in the test in your day-to-day life in a salon or a barbershop. It's just not the reality of it. Like, that's not the things we're doing every day. So you have to actually like make sure you're being oh, what's the word I want?

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Oh self-disciplined or intentional.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

You're being you have to make sure you're intentional in what you're paying attention to and what you're trying to learn and get in your arsenal.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yep. Well, and um also, at least as far as New Hampshire goes, I don't know about other states, like there's the requirement for the salon or barbershop owner for you to be an employee. Like you have to make an hourly wage. Oh that's required because you're also covered by workers' compensation insurance. So, like, that's important. The state wants to make sure that you're covered in case while you're learning something happens, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

But and that's usually why we'll say that there's nothing prohibiting shop or salon owners in the state of charging somebody for being an apprentice. And some people will try and do a little bit of an under-the-table wash, going, I won't put you on as an employee, because some people don't have an employee shit set up shop. Yeah. Like dealing with payroll and all that kind of stuff. It's its own overhead. Like, you have to match the taxes that are coming out of their paycheck in order to have an employee, and for just one, it's not really cost-effective. So there has been known to be those like under-the-table deals going, hey, I won't charge you for this apprenticeship, but I'm also not going to pay you. So the only people are missing out are the government. So I have known those things to be the case, though it's not above board, it's not technically legal that way. But for the reality of like, you know, the cost of school is thousands of dollars versus like, I mean, technically, somebody who has an apprentice has every right to charge that. You're getting educated just like anything else. Yeah, absolutely. So I would be it unless you're in a place that already has employees, then it's like, oh, just adding another one.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Not a big deal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

That's kind of how it was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah. I could understand, like, if somebody would be like, sure, you can be an apprentice, but I'm gonna charge you. It could still end up being a cheaper option because you are still getting paid to be there. Yeah, yeah. That's one of those like finicky things.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

So as far as like getting paid uh while you're in an apprenticeship, is it similar to that of an employee or is it it has to be an employee. So it's literally the same as if you had just been an employee there. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

So it's I needed a certain amount of hours and a certain months in combination um in order to become an employee. And yeah, then I was hired, you know, with a certain percentage to start, and then after a certain time it went up, and after, yeah, and then it goes up again. So I don't know if I'm gonna be going up anymore, but yeah, same street did the same. I was on the books, I was, you know, in the schedule, and I was able to start building my clientele that I have continued to see for because the requirement is you can't touch a paying client for so many months and so many hours of your apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Oh so unlike in school where yeah it's more readily uh introduced to you. Yeah, um, but the wording is everything. You can't touch a paying client. Yes, yes, correct. Yep, and that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Many, many, many, many free haircuts.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Between friends, family, walk-ins who, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

We're fine with it. Or like, say somebody who is uh receptionist or like front of house staff and you're stuck still an employee, and if they wanted to apprentice, then all they gotta do is get their apprentice license and alright, well, you're you're still on the book, so it's pretty nippy. And so during those first uh three months or so, or however many hours, um they could theoretically, but if they don't have a receptionist or whatever, put you as an employee right away.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

You're not there to cut hair or to touch, you know, paying clients, but you're there doing other things that unlicensed people can do. Like you don't even need a license to shampoo somebody. Yeah. So you can start by being an assistant of sorts.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

I jumped right into haircuts. That's all I did for the the first, you know, I don't know, three to six months, I think, when I became an employee. And then, you know, Natalie said it's up to you. If you want to focus a lot of your time on color, so that way you're, you know, wanting you want to be ready for that, so that way you can start making more because it is a higher paying service. So I'm like, all right, let's do cuts first. Cause like as soon as I feel like I'm comfortable with that, well, that you know, then I'll move on to something else. But you're you're right, um, Cassie, in the way that like it's I had to so I learned I learned so much, uh, so many good things about being in a shop and actually having my own clientele and how to deal with the moment they come in the door until the moment they leave. And I had to go home and be like, okay, now I have to look in my book and find out what I actually need to know to pass, you know, not specifically each individual month because it was like, okay, I I would I would give um my boss kind of the general chapters that I was working, you know, working on and say, this is where I started, this is where I stopped. And she knew not to go outside of those because I wasn't really, you know, focusing on anything else. So she would keep it in that little category for me. But it's I was I think the most stressed I've been in my entire life, the last six months of my apprenticeship leading up to those tests, because I'm a terrible test taker. I am horrible at test taking because whatever's in there decides not to show up in the moment that I need it. And it happens in conversations too. So sorry if that happens today. But um, that was like that was a huge thing that I was, it just was I didn't sleep. I was like, you know, just beyond stressed. I was yelling at my kids. My husband was like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, you know what's wrong with me. So I was a hot mess. But I unfortunately didn't get to take any mock tests. I had a um a friend who was trying to get me in for mock tests, but then she left the school. So then it was harder for me to try to get in there. Yeah. Um, so I had to look at YouTube, and that's where I spent most of my time for those last few months was hoping, praying, you know, crossing my fingers that I was getting the information I actually needed for my channel.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

I didn't say like that you were watching the watching the right mock practice video that leads you in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah, there are none for New Hampshire. So I had to look at no, not at all. Not for any of them. Why would there be for nails, for hair? Yeah, no, none of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

So well, it also had changes so often.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

That it's like within six months of that video being posted, it's gonna change. So often, yeah. But I found some, I actually I don't remember the name of the guy, but he had been in the industry for like 40 years, and all he does now is puts up the information you need to help pass your tests, and he's like, these are the things you're gonna want to focus on because it's going to be uh on the test like indefinitely. It is going to be on there, you know, like sanitation. That's not an option, you know, where they it's like they they pull from random random categories.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

That should be like the first thing you learn. Yes. Before you touch anybody, it's like you need to learn how to clean the list.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

So I focused so much of my time leading up to that on like making sure I knew every little thing that was like an important thing, obviously, that I would have to know because I knew it was gonna be on there. Um, but there were a few other categories and then you know, strategies of like how Brie actually told me like what you'd narrow it down to two. And then out of those two, which one has you know the most description or the longest explanation? Yes, it locked in there. Thank you. And the process of elimination and and that whole thing became so much easier between his advice and Brie's advice, and I still had to make sure I knew the information. It wasn't wasn't just gonna come out of nowhere, but it was yeah, definitely super helpful. But I, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

I got through it and it well how was your practical from the apprenticeship standpoint? Because just gonna ask.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

So this is this is funny. Um, Jen from Hello Hair, she was in I think about four or five months before I took my test. And before she I think while she was at the salon giving us education, her and her husband um she said something about having multiple apprentices apprentices in her shop. So I knew I wanted to ask her, like, how how did you know, what did they do? How did they? And she said, two things look professional, act professional, don't wear sweatpants. I'm like, those are the two things I need to make sure that I know the most. She goes, Yep. Because everything else, as long as you understand the perms and the cuts and you know, 90 degrees, whatever, like all the basic things, look professional, look like you know what you're doing, and you're gonna do just fine. And just having that, like, I don't know, that demeanor of I know what I'm doing, and I've been doing this for a long time, and I'm just you know, like coming back into it or whatever. I don't know. I had to print it.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Like a false sense of confidence, just like a fake it till you make it.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And I'm watching people around me going, why are they doing that? Something's they don't know what's what the hell? Like it was very interesting. And I passed, obviously, I don't think you you don't get a number with your practical, you don't get like a percentage you got right type of mean it's pass or not. Uh you get a percentage right now. I didn't see that. Yeah. If I could go search for that, because I was looking for it.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah, you get a number.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

But I was like, I know that I messed up over here, but did they see it? You know, and it was things that I knew immediately after. Okay. Oops, I didn't put the cotton around before I did the saturation here.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

I'm curious how many like because I s have seen a lot of barbers from different schools when I tested for all three of the licenses. Some of them brought copious amounts of things because they were only going by the list of things you can bring. It's the it's not about the what you can bring, it's about what you need. Yeah. So at least my school was very good at going, these are the things like really teaching you this is how you need to pack your toolkit. You have things in plastic bags, you have only what you need, and maybe a backup of like an extra neck neck strip in case you drop it, an extra comb in case you drop it, that kind of thing. But like so many people and even the container of what you bring is like, why are you bringing something with a zipper?

SPEAKER_02 19:57

A tote. Someone brought an entire rubber-made tote.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Oh, that yeah, there were a few.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

I it was mind-boggling to me. That makes more sense to me than a zipper like a luggage fair. But like, my my school was saying very, very thorough in making sure we didn't have a bunch of extra mess in our bags, all the way down to lining our bag in the order of the clients, so that way as soon as we opened our bag, it's just the next bag that comes out. You don't even have to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

I had my Ziploc bags all labeled, and I had them like standing kind of like upright inside of my bag. Like a little file. So I just have to grab the next one, and I had my extra towels over here, just extra, you know, extra, extra, even though you bring extra. But there were definitely people scrambling, not having anything organized at all. And they went to school, and I didn't, and I had to search for that information. And thankfully, a few of the girls just got recertified or just you know, graduated recently. So they were like, Oh, yeah, you need your bags with like the labeled, you know, for your trashes and stuff, and just keep that in there. So that in combination with some YouTube videos from I don't even know, or it was Florida maybe, was that was helpful. But all these other people looked like they didn't, like they didn't even know what they were doing. So it made me feel better.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

I feel like it really boils down to whether you're in an apprenticeship or in a school situation or not, how much you really want it. Because like I was taught the same things as everyone else in my class. We prepped, we did the same mockboards, and I would still be in a room with my classmates and they're fumbling. So it really is dependent on the person. It's it's like you wanted this, you were driven for it, like you knew that this is what you needed to do to make that next step. So you searched for all that information. Whereas, like, I was in a classroom setting, so it was all given to me, but like that means I still had to harness it and use it and then utilize it. And some of these people some people just don't. This is not I think like in Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

And then at the end figure it out and they're going, Oh crap, I should have been paying more attention. Well, and but how successful are they going to be in the real world after that?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Right. Well, and I mean it your school required at the beginning of your programs to let you know the statistics of uh the success of entering the industry. Do you remember what that was? No. God no. But it was probably the very high school or less actually stay in the industry after graduation. And they're required to tell you that because they are a Title IV school, so they get federal government aid. So that is a requirement by the federal government if they're gonna give you money. Yeah, it wasn't a very high number at all.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

I think it's still about that. That that came up in one of the videos that I was watching, and I'm like, oh, I did not know that until right now. It's probably somewhere in my book, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Well and but I didn't and that's like it's an important thing to know and realize once you've gone through the entire testing process, going, oh, this makes more sense now. Okay, I get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Oh my practical test for my cosmetology license was wild. My mannequin stand exploded. I like when exploded. The literally the the the lever, the mechanism that like clamps it, the part that like the mannequin head sits on and like swivels around. The ball joint? The ball joint right there exploded. Pieces flew on the ground right when I was setting up for my haircut. So I just had to do my entire haircut with the mannequin head sitting on the table. Yep. I just I put I put I had my elbow on the head to help give me tension. I just had to do what I had to do, and they one of the things my teachers always told us is make it work. Just make it work. Always think about the client's safety, your safety, sanitation, and just make it work. Just get it done. They don't care how you do it as long as you do it safely. They just want to see that you can be safe with your client.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

I still got I think like a 93 on that practical. Like I did really well on that practical, and it literally was a mess. The haircut was terrible. It I didn't even get to finish because it's very hard to cut a wobbly head like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

So during my barber one, was it my barber one? Maybe it was my master barber. Uh too many tests. Um my mannequin head popped off my stand and fell into my trash bucket. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Oh no, you threw your client in the trash.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

I sanitized them with a barber sideways. It was fine. Uh, but I did know somebody who was ahead of me in barber school that did his master barber without a mannequin stand because he had forgotten it. So we had to do the entire perm situation without a mannequin stand. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Talk about talent. Impressive. I remember a friend of mine, she forgot her hot tool. So she used a highlighter and just wrapped the hair and just showed the showed the maneuver that everything was safe, yeah. She just didn't did it. Made sure she tested it on the paper and all the stuff. Wow. And they were totally fine with that.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I was very happy that when I took the bar barber test, because curling uh irons used to be the elective service that barbers had to do. Thankfully they changed that before I entered barber school. Uh and so they they did it a facial massage instead. Oh and now they've removed that and made it mandatory to be a blood spill procedure. Because I would say from a priority standpoint, you really want to know that somebody knows that. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Especially when somebody actually cuts themselves during the test.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Well, especially since the the proctors judging can't really tell how well how well you're massaging a face, but they can see how well you can put a band-aid on your own finger.

unknown 25:57

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yep. Some things are more objective than others. But like uh I think probably all three of our testing experiences are different, and that's how often they change things. It's like when I tested, uh, there was no requirement to uh simulate a corded clipper. Because all of us had corded clippers.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:22

Now that's a requirement. We didn't have the three separated receptacle areas of trash uh like uh laundry items need sanitation and laundry. Yeah, we didn't we just had trash. Everything went to the trash. Oh wow, yeah, so like some things have changed, some things have stayed the same. Uh and like now you're only required to demonstrate half of a shave rather than the full 14 strokes. Correct. Yeah, because it used to be a full 14 and we had to like lock eyes with the proctor. Oh, it'd be like creepy because 14 is so quick on a mannequin, you're just like swoop, rather than in real life, it's like six swoops. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They grow hair all the way around here. Um, so it's like make eye contact before you do. So you go, you look at me. Look at me. Swoop. Because otherwise, if they don't see you do it, they can knock you a point.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah, yeah. That's that was one of the things I was actually told is like you want to make sure they see you performing your service that they're expecting to see you do correctly, because if they don't see it, they can market that you didn't do it right. Right. And there were two. There were two proctors. I think there were 20, I counted like 28 people in the conference center. And I'm I'm looking around at the other, you know, students going, am I supposed to wait until the proctor comes back around from that side of the room over here to see me? But one of them definitely was a new proctor because she was asking lots of questions, you know, from the other one. And I was glad she was in my area more than the other one because I don't think either of them were actually paying attention. If I had if I had done what I was told and like wait till they come over, I wouldn't have been able to finish any of my services because there were so many of us and very few of them. So that freaked me out, but I just did it. Did what I needed to do. Hope that they saw.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

It's funny because as you were talking about our different experiences that we've had because of time change, I was about to say how grateful I am that I didn't have to experience the big rooms full of people. And so now that you said that, they're obviously back to big rooms, the big rooms again. I was in the middle of a COVID limbo, so there was only I'd heard about the the horror stories of like 50 people in Ohio. Oh yeah. It's literally they fill the conference room full of people, it's just like 50 plus people everywhere, and they're all testing at the same time. So, like that's what I was mentally terrified for. And then because of COVID and everything, there was maybe 12 people. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

That's what a uh the average barber exam would be when I went through because there was There's just not a lot. Well, and Empire hadn't um really launched a huge, I think they maybe had one barber program. Oh, okay, so they're gonna be able to get the bigger. It wasn't in Hooksit yet, like it wasn't big yet. Yeah. So like we were basically the only school in the state during that time. So there wasn't a ton of barbers going through. There there were some Empire people, so it was nice to see like the difference in education when we're all getting tested at the same time. But yeah, it was always like all of the cosmetology people are going to this giant conference room and like the handful of barbers are going over here.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

My my barber one was even smaller. Like my my master barber one. What I did love about that is it was most of my class. You're just all in there together. I was like, this could either be really good or really bad, because you guys distract me a lot. I was like, I'm just gonna put my back to all of you.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Well, and even for my Master Barber one, the Proctor forgot to do the facial massage section. Shenanigans. The entire section. So anybody who was there for only barber one, because for Master Barber, it's all the the three services that for barber one you all do first, and then all the barber ones are dismissed, and those who are staying for Master Barber stay for the following two sections. To do all the chemical stuff. Okay. So the facial massage was supposed to be um I can't remember if it was supposed to be second or third, but uh Towards the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

It was like I even asked, I was like, so should I put my facial massage items away now?

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Oh right. Oh yeah, because you don't want to get docked points if you're like moving, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Because if you were to put it away and they just already told everybody to clean up, and I'm like, Yeah, you want me to put that away since I didn't use it? Oh my god. So that was a uh I guess you're passing everybody for that section because you did not test them. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yeah. So proctors make mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

How many people do you think were pumped that they forgot that section?

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Facial massage is probably the easiest section of the entire thing. Probably bittersweet. Circles. Circles and motor points. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Like, so nothing in the massaging a mannequin. All right.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

With what we used was uh cleansing cream. So real oily, slick stuff. Nice.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

We used cholesterol stuff for everything.

SPEAKER_04 31:26

Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

That's what people told me to get, and I said, meh. Terrible. Get some thick conditioner or something.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

The I don't like cleansing cream on my face. But it's handy because you can use it, number one, to do the step of cleansing the face. But if you throw a label on it that says massage cream, it also doubles as a massage cream.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Oh yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

And you can use it for the uh protectant for the perm.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Oh yeah. I think that's what I that was the other one. Yeah. That's what my conditioner was I used for everything. I made the mistake of uh using um food coloring to dye the different ones for like, you know, perm solution. But it I hadn't checked it. It was in my thing all nice and you know, ready to go. And I left it in there for a few days and had it all prepped, and I got it out, and it was like starting to separate and like get thick, and I'm like, wow. Didn't think about checking to see that reaction with the yeah, with the food coloring and the conditioner, which is just from like the Dollar Tree, because I'm not spending anything.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Well, VO5.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah, yep. Yep, exactly. Yep, can't get that smell out of my nose. That's in all the things in that bag now. Oh, good stuff. No, but I just used um Vaseline for barrier cream.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Like globbed it on, like they said. Make sure that they can see it. Okay. It was so thick.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

That was the nice thing about the cleansing cream, is it's white. Yep. Because uh, I don't know. Do you guys just do one panel for the perm? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was just like bottom of the nape.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

But I think just to like the outside of the bone, I don't even think it was the whole way down.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Really?

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

We had to do a whole back section.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah, it was, yeah. But I don't think it was the entire mohawk, you know, like section. I think we said from the crown down to the cloud. Okay, it was I knew it wasn't the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yeah, top was top quadrant was foils.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, not my problem. Fair. I don't do that. Nope. I love it. Yeah, because we for the chemical services, we had to use the mannequin head and like break it into quadrants for all that notes.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

The relaxer.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Well, so we had the four quadrants to do a virgin, lightener, lightener retouch, relaxer version, relaxer retouch, I think.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Oh well.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Um so that was our four quadrants. And I pulled this out of like 12 years ago. So bear with me. It's impressive. But uh yes, because I remember the fourth quadrant we had to make sure to demonstrate smoothing.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

With like the back of the comb.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Yes, to remove the excess.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

But like the important part of was the virgin ones was to make sure to outline the quadrant first. Oh, and then intersections.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah. I thought we were metal. So that I don't have to go through that again.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

But we just use gel for that entire thing. Wow. Well, because we also use squeeze tubes. We didn't use bowl and brush.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

It was yeah, because we we would just section that way, squeeze it on, apply with fingers.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

That's all you needed to do. Oh. I just it made everything way easier for like packing.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

You just reminded me of when you said the gel and you know, using your fingers to smooth it through. Um, I had the worst experience with the hand sanitizer that I brought. Because it was my mom, I didn't have any, and I was like, I have to run out, you know, tonight to get some if I don't have any, because I don't have time in the morning because I had to leave at like 4 30 in the morning to get there. So, or like be up at 4 30, and that's early for me. So my mom's like, oh, I have some, it's probably like eight years old, but it's hand sanitizer. I go, yeah. And I was actually excited because it was aloe hand sanitizer. Don't ever use that, guys. Don't ever use a moisturizing hand sanitizer during during your test because it doesn't come off your hands and it just adds layers and layers and layers of real good moisturizer that doesn't come off and everything sticks to your hands. You can't get your freaking gloves on. And I ripped my gloves. Thankfully, obviously had more, but I was like, should I just keep these ripped ones on and put my hand into the other glove because there'll be some type of barrier between the stickiness? Uh I the entire time I was like, I just need to wash my hands. Like, I just need to wash my hands. And I was so tempted to take my spray bottle and like, you know, wash my hands with my spray bottle just to get the stickiness off. But it's the only hand sanitizer I had. Did you take a box of tissues?

SPEAKER_01 36:26

No. Oh, that was like standard for us because from a sanitation standpoint, like, you're not gonna have a hand towel. So if ever we needed to like say we're lathering somebody up for a shave, all right. Well, getting lather in somebody's ears, eyes, or nose if you're a mannequin, not wrong. Leaving it there is wrong. So for a sanitation standpoint, having a disposable wipe like a tissue is really handy. So, especially in the case of like that, tissue would have been real handy to just be like, get off real quick.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah, I had it.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Square box of tissues.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Well, didn't require that.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Oh, it's not a matter of requiring.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Nope, didn't have it.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yeah, I think I had a bag specifically for paper towels. Just a little like spare bag. It had like paper towels, uh, wax things, and just like extra Q tips, just little extra bits. Just in a bag, extra bits.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Well, did did you have to take a tarp?

SPEAKER_02 37:31

What? A tarp?

SPEAKER_01 37:33

To catch the hair? No.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

We had to sweep it up.

unknown 37:37

Murdering somebody.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

Like were we murdering somebody? I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

No, we would like you had to bring a whole tarp? Yeah, we would cut because the conference rooms are carpeted. Yep. Yes. So and we have to take everything with us, so what we were taught was like we cut a smaller tarp and we put it where we were standing. That way it would catch all the hair and we'd just fold it up and take it with us. I was told about that. We didn't.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Oh yeah, no, they have plastic taped to the floor, kind of, now to like designate a square you stand on, and then you have to show them how you can sweep and then put your hair in the respectable trash can.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Like that's they have to make sure that you're like doing that properly. That's part of the your cleanliness.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Isn't that so sad? We need to make sure that you are minimally competent in the ability to sweep.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

There were a few that the Proctor had to go back to multiple times after that only one haircut and say, You still have hair on the ground. You still have hair on the ground. And I was like, I felt so bad for her. She was right next to me, and I was like, just get your damn hair. There's like one little piece that you're not getting, and she can't point it out, but she keeps saying, You have hair on the ground still. Ugh. I think there was like four or five times. Yeah, she had to go back.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

My goodness.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Sweep her floor under her feet in the one tiny spot she gave a haircut.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

I think bringing the tarp would have been better. Yeah. That sounds like a much better idea. We had to wait for everyone to use the damn broom. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Yep, you can bring your own.

unknown 39:12

I feel like the plane is the bad still needs to stay in.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Ugh, that's lame. They shouldn't let you bring your own broom. Like 28 other people.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

Oh, come on, you know on Amazon there's gotta be like a telescope and collapsible broom. Oh, that would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Travel size broom.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Yes. Oh my god. Or realistically, you could have a hand pan. Yeah, I was immediately thinking about those like little ones. Yeah. I mean, it's not like you're taking a ton of hair off your mannequin. Like we'll kind of pre-cut it before the cut. Yes. And I think there's a requirement of like you have to cut off at least a quarter of an inch or something. Half an inch. Some nonsense.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Yeah, and yeah. What do you guys have to do?

SPEAKER_01 39:56

A 90 degree for cosmetology?

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

So my mannequin that I had, I had grabbed from the shop the day before. I knew we had a bunch extra, but I didn't want to take any of the ones with long hair because we practice updos often. So I'm like, alright, this one's good. And then I got it home, I packed everything up. I had most of my things packed, but last minute to go through everything. And I'm like, all right, now I'll do like, you know, do a nice even cut on the whole thing so that way it's ready to go, and all I have to do is follow it for tomorrow. And I'm holding it up and I'm going, I don't think this hair's long enough. And I realized, no, it is like an inch and a half to two inches too short. And I started to panic. Thankfully, I had a man mannequin with me, full-on beard, like hadn't been touched at all, nice long hair, and I went, You're gonna be pretty at the end of this. And I had to do, you know, like the practi the curl the day before, like make sure everything was like set and ready to go. And but I gave him like a Viking, like you know, braid on his beard, so it was nice and well out of your way. Yep, I didn't want it in my way, but he was beautiful at the end of it. He was a mess, but he was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Thank God I had that.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

So in in my school, we only had one mannequin for the whole education program.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

What?

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Oh, yeah. Including the skateboard. They had to use the same one.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

So you had to, if you wanted to get a different one, you had to go go get it yourself. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Oh. Unless you were a Master Barber, so with the chemical services, they had mannequins that had been to Master Barber state boards before. They get recycled. Right. It just needs a good 90 degree so that it can get a perk. Like it doesn't need anything else. So you can just keep reusing it. And those were Mr. Sam's. I still have a Mr. Sam. Oh my god. To this day. I've done a few things to him. I don't think he would be allowed to go to the state board again. But um yeah. I still have a Sam. But Jasmine was our class's like model for our uh our mannequins.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

I don't remember the one that I had that was from a friend who was, you know, in Empire over here. So she's like, you can have it. Its hair's red. So I don't know what you gotta do. And I'm like, I can do cuts on it, doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

It's so weird though, the first time I saw because I did no research before going to this profession. I knew nothing. But like the first time I saw somebody who went to Empire who had one of those mannequins that had like the detachable uh uh scalps. The swatch thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yes, or I was like, what is that? Tell me about these are weird. So I've not seen heads with detachable panels, like the head itself that things detach from, but in my cosmetology kit, we get this swatch that looks like it would be like the nape of the neck. It's got about five or six inches of hair on it, and we never used it. We never used it. I think I used it one time by taking pins and stabbing it into my mannequin's head. I think I curled it once, but like it never had a purpose. I thought it was like I honestly I thought it was gonna be something along the lines of like when we were learning like about hair replacement and stuff, because it looks kind of like a janky toupee, but we just never we never use it. It's just a sectioned hair piece.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

I will say that is another section of education I feel like is woefully uh neglected. And that's hair replacement systems, yep, and wigs. Agreed. So like I don't know how cosmetology touches on wigs or whatever, but it's like they mentioned that they're an option.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

We do have a um in cosmetology school, we did have an entire at least section on wigs where we got to go through the different types and the how to like maintain them and like all the Those different sorts of things, but not enough. It's like a week-long section. Like it's not something that's just we covered it in We touch and go.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Yeah, we covered it in the chapter. We we did do a field trip to a wig shop in Hooksit uh that was near one of the professional only stores at the time. And it had been there for a long time, but it was really just a a cursory, like this is what we sell here. Yep. Uh it did they didn't really get into detail other than like people were interested in price ranges, like how much did these things cost? And I mean, my instructor had done his own research at the time because he is somebody who is bald on top. Um, and he got himself a custom-made hair piece, which was thrown in a drawer at some point during my time. Like I never got to see it on him, but like, so he at least sought out that education because he didn't even receive that when he went to barber school. Um same thing with like he personally tried electrolysis because he wanted to learn more about it, because they had touched on it, but not in depth.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

So like he had a a great uh ferocity as far as like wanting to learn more than what was being presented to him. So he went out and found that. But I feel like it's I I get that there's only 1,500 hours in a program, uh, at least for our state. But I feel like some of those things need to be touched on more. Or at very least, touched on enough to where you can point them towards a door to find out.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Not for nothing, and I know there's pivot point as far as like cosmetology goes, but for barbering, like, there's one textbook. There's only one one textbook that's published by Malady. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Like, even so Empire uses Pivot Point for cosmetology, like that's the program that they use. Empire also uses Milady for their barbering. Like, there's not a pivot point barbering.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

They have a monopoly on barber textbooks. Which, given my collection of history of barbering textbooks, I'm really frustrated by it because I go, there used to be competition. Yeah. Yep. And now it's just Malady. That's bizarre. And every so often to justify their publishing uh a new textbook, they tweak a couple of chapters. Like it's the shaving chapter that they tweak. Because I I have a lot of their books over the years. Yeah. I see where they started to like every few uh publication years, they just like switch the shave strokes, a couple of shave strokes. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Just like flip them around.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Yeah, so it's like what was seven is now eight. Shenanigans.

SPEAKER_02 46:43

It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 46:44

Just like just for the sake of. Yes. Otherwise, aside from maybe updated um biology and you know, anatomy physiology stuff, if something new comes out, or like, you know, I'm sure the next textbook will have something to do with COVID in it. Oh, absolutely. You think so? But outside of because they do update it like prior to the AIDS epidemic, you know, it was focused on syphilis. And like that was the big issue. Yep. And so then uh AIDS and hepatitis became the big thing, so they expanded their section on that. Oh. Um so I'm sure because of what the world has been through, COVID will then be uh a larger section in that chapter.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Yeah, that makes sense. Just like how like cleaning bottles now say that it kills COVID.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Oh my goodness. Yeah, I was looking at car cleaner stuff the other day in Walgreens, and I was like, kills 99.9%. Armorol wipes or armor all disinfectant wipes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Kills COVID.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Kills 99.9%, including COVID. So it's it specifically says that now? Yeah. Because I know it like before all the Lysol wipes and stuff all have always said kills coronavirus. But it never said kills.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

But in very small letters.

SPEAKER_00 47:52

Yes. Oh, so tiny. Yes. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

But yeah, now it's all big big.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Ah, specific. So people are like selling selling points. Always.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

And I mean, even when we were going through like lockdowns and everything, it's like, excuse me, um, New Hampshire. We should probably be allowed to go back to work. Why? Because we work with hospital-level disinfectants all the time. Um, chances are if it can kill HIV and kill COVID. Guaranteed, chances are. Because guess what? If I drink that, it's gonna kill me. Just basic common sense concepts. Like connecting dots, man. Just connecting dots. Oh yeah. When y'all are worried about water droplets and whether or not people can use hairdryers, I'm over here like we do this all the time. Nothing should change for us.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Nope. No, literally the only thing that changed was wearing the masks. But like the the hand washing is was still the same, the everything was still Well, we should always do.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

Yeah. Yep. And well, not entirely true. Were you working when lockdown lifted?

SPEAKER_02 48:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

You were in school?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Okay. Because schools had like extra crap they had to do because the second round of restrictions. So the first round of restrictions, when they first lifted the line of slightly less than essential professions, but you can go back to work now. Like there were several waves, and we were among the first because of our profession. Um the first restrictions were you can do haircuts only, had to wear a mask, all the regular disinfection procedures that we always have to do. And no double booking, that sort of thing. Barbers don't do that anyway.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

The second round that came out like two weeks later, two or three weeks later, I could tell was not based on any new science. It was entirely based on two sides being very upset. And so they started compromising on things based on making those sides happier.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

So it was no longer about safety, like it was proposed to be. It was about like calming the mobs. Yeah. So they just to appease the people. Right. It was the oh, you're allowed to do retouches now. As long as they're not in your salon for more than an hour. Still no double booking. Because salons cannot live on haircuts alone. No. Like barbers, we're like, yeah, that's what's our purpose. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

What do we do?

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah. We don't need beer trims for now, it's okay. And not being able to use blow dryers because of water droplets, like that really limits the salon's diversity of services and ability to make money. Yeah. So they were upset by that major restriction. It's like, we can't be sustained like this. No. So they started lifting some of those for them, but then added some more restrictions that made no sense. You're like, oh, so for the first three weeks, we were just what killing people? Yeah. Because we didn't have an apron?

SPEAKER_00 50:49

Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Oh, I remember though. I listened to that.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

I mean, listen to all of yours, but I I remember listening to when you were having that conversation and being like, that's ridiculous! Like, what? How does that I mean there's no common sense.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

It there's like I hated when we had to wear aprons. They did that at the school. Yeah. I'm over here, like as you're talking, I'm like really trying to remember like what our rules were when I went back to school. And as soon as you said apron, we had those stupid plastic, cafeteria lady aprons. Cute. That just as soon as you pull it too tight, it just stretches and snaps. Oh and is so static y. Yeah. And just clings all the hair to your body and then it folds up.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

Well, because it's just a trash bag in a different shape.

SPEAKER_02 51:39

Yes! In a trash bag, yes. That's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Oh so comfortable. PTSD for aprons. Of all sorts. Oh yes, all the aprons. But we basically so when the second round of restrictions came through, I had a talk with everybody in the shop. I was like, this obviously is no longer steeped in logic. Here is my proposal, and here's what I am going to do. You are all booth renters. You can do what you like. But this is what I'm going to do. Everything that we always had to do before this crap happened. And wear masks. Yep. That's it. Boom. There you go. And I kept, like, I I found I was creative with the internet. I found bib aprons for elderly folks who can't feed themselves very well. So they were large, but they were paper. So I didn't have to worry about killing the planet with all this plastic that we're suddenly disposing of all the time. And I kept them in the basement. Just in case somebody came through and wanted to make a hubbub about it. It's like, alright, we have these here. Pulling on. But never had to. Not at once. Mm-mm. No, no inspector came through that entire situation.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

I think do you do you think it's because they weren't quite sure what they were, you know, like because of how I think then the the inspectors they had um knew that it was not based in common sense.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Because at that time, like, I mean, even now it's professionals in the industry. They're like, we know these rules. We know the logic behind these rules. Sometimes we know the bureaucracy around these rules. So I just number one, you're gonna be overwhelmed no matter what. And so you're gonna prioritize like egregious offenders more so than like the average person. Right. It's like, well, we know who gets fined the most, so let's make extra sure that they're taking these things seriously.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

For good reason.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

But also, I mean, I still remember I had the sign, no mask, no service. It was a very ornate sign. It was beautiful. And I'm like, I hope to never have to use that again. Even though it was like, nope, never again. I'm never requiring masks ever again. But uh, post-COVID world, you guys, you don't know any better. It's kind of like people that flew before 9-11. Like they knew what it was like to not deal with TSA. Yeah, yep. We don't know.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

We have no idea. No idea. This is just it. What is that like? Not having to take off your shoes. In fact, for the longest time, obviously because I was so young when 9-11 happened, but for the longest time I didn't realize that that's why that was the way that it was. It just was. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, it's because this happened. I'm like, that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 54:39

How old were you in 2000? Uh nothing. Nothing. Nothing. How old are you now? 37.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Okay. Definitely old enough to remember.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Because you were like a sophomore in high school.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

No, I was actually.

unknown 54:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

I was in middle school. No. I was in middle school. I was in science class.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

I wasn't gonna listen to you try to math.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

And I'm gonna be 36. It just turned 37.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

That makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

You were a freshman.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

No, no, I actually wasn't because I was homeschooled before I went into school and I was held back one year to make sure that I could catch up with them because of the car accident. So, no, yeah, I was in eighth grade then. Yep. I'm like, I should have been in. Why am I why is your math? It makes sense, but it doesn't make sense. That's why. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Your life.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yeah, my life.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Your specific life.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Uh-huh. Anyone else who would have been a freshman?

unknown 55:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

So, um, given that you're coming up on your three year mark, how are you enjoying the industry? I want to know what your favorite part of like being a hair professional now is.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Like the favorite service that I provide. Sure. Or part that's not a specific service. Any section. I mean, I have a love-hate relationship with the having conversations with my clients. Because I definitely know that I don't work as fast when I'm having conversations with my clients, and we're talking back and forth, and we're really into it. So I love it because I've always been a talker. Always had people tell me things and say, I don't know why I told you that. First time meeting them. And I'm like, yep. So I'm in the right place. Um, when it comes to services, I really like doing highlights and like lightning services, which is the opposite of how I thought it was gonna be. I really thought that I was going to like all the, you know, crazy weird colors, the fashion colors and like doing all the crazy cuts. No, I don't know. I didn't get any of those? Yes. Not as much, not as much, but I uh most of the fashion color people come to me because they see the profile picture on on there and go, she looks crazy enough. I'll go to her. She probably knows what she's doing. She's got green hair and dreadlocks. So, um, no, I love doing highlights. It's I can focus on it for you know a good chunk of time and it be like my hyperfixation, and I love it. But if I have too many in one day, it's overwhelming. Which I actually was talking with Brie about this past weekend when she was over. I had two very long highlight services that just killed me. And I know like my back was fine. Everyone's like, oh, your back's gonna die from having these and standing up all day. No, it was I was emotionally drained and I was exhausted. So I love doing them. They just if I take a lot out of you. It depends, yeah, and it depends. I have clients that come in for highlights and it takes me two and a half hours, and you know, it's an easy thing. I'm touching roots up, maybe brightening their ends. But then other people, it's like, oh yeah, they take five hours, and I didn't book for that, so now I'm struggling with my time because I have someone else coming in any minute, and oh, wait a minute, they've been here? What? Oh, my time, yeah, it's hard. So I love it, but time management is still something I'm working on, and I don't always want to go faster. I want to give quality, you know. Yeah, I want them to leave going. I felt like they gave me all of the time I needed and actually listened and did the things I wanted, as opposed to just getting them in and out. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

That's how Cassie and I kind of feel about the the practice of double booking.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

I yeah, I don't do it very often. Most of the time I'll do it with my same client and she'll say, like, I want to can you do a pedicure while I'm processing while my roots are on? Absolutely, because what else am I doing? I'm gonna sit out back and just wait for you to process. So let's do a pedicure because we have that option. We have many petties, waxing, things like that. So having all those different services makes it easier to double book, but I'm not two different clients usually. Yeah, yeah. Right. That'll consider that.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah. It's just you get a lot of services.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Do an extra, yeah. I'll tell you. It's only once in a while that I'll do a double booking.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

I'm so glad that I did not follow through with my cosmetology. Well, because I when I started my like going-to-school journey, I'm artistic, and so I thought I was gonna get my painters fixed through color. I was like, I'm gonna be a colorist, and I wanna do all the fun stuff and all the exciting shades, and then there was this science component that I just it was completely oblivious to. And when I learned about skin fades and got my first skin fade, I was like, that's I wanna go to barber school, yeah, and that's what I wanted to do. And honestly, once I geared my mind more towards barbering, I was scared of cosmetology because I didn't want to get stuck in a spot where I was gonna have to do endless days of highlights. Wow, that's so funny and just all that, and that was actually like a fear of mine. I was like, I don't want to be because I just pictured myself at like some salon in Meredith just doing endless blonde highlights all the time balayages and such as and honestly, like that all the unknown variables that come into play in the cosmetology world is also like what shied me away from it because of my scary, especially because of my time management, because once you throw that wrench in there, it's like alright now figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:31

Yeah, that's that's I mean it kind of reminds me of when in my day earlier when walk-ins were the standard.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

I that's all I remember from when we first met you. Only walk-in. That's all it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

And so that that anxiety, that tension that is created by having a line of people or someone waiting on you. Oh, I hate that. Well, even today, all of my clients were stupid early, and I'm talking more than 20 minutes. Oh, that's stupid early. They are so fortunate that I am so ahead of schedule. I don't like that. Yeah. But also yesterday, uh, all of my shave clients of the week just merged a one. Just went all the same day before lunch. Wow. So and shaves are because they're my favorite thing to do, I very much like to give my full attention and energy to them the way you like to do with your highlight customers. Like it is what I pride myself in. So it is draining doing several of those. Yeah. Especially back to back to back. It's it's a lot. It's it's tiring. Yeah. But it's a it's a good tiring. It's not so much like a oh my gosh, this day went belly up quickly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Yeah. It's like, uh, you know what? I enjoyed all of the experiences with the people that I had. It's a good tired. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

The other thing that I'm I love doing a lot and I want to get even better at it is using my razor to give like fun little wispy, pedaly, kind of feathery, you know, doing all the shags and stuff that they're, you know, wolf cuts and butterfly cuts and all these different things. I can do an entire cut with my razor mostly without, you know, doing the perimeter, but sometimes even then. Um, but it's so much fun. It takes longer because you're you're not just you know cutting across, you're like in carving all these different parts of the hair that are just like so much fun. And those are like really in right now. So it gives me something else to focus on that not everyone in the salon enjoys doing. And actually, a lot of them are like, how do you do that? Because I focused my time learning that. I like was really like, I knew it was coming, I knew it was a thing that people were gonna want. Well, so it's fun. I'm assuming do you do you use the guard on your razor? Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I mean we have to as cosmetologists. What I was told I'd like to not sometimes, but I don't know, I don't think we can.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Well, the only um restriction that I'm I know for sure for cosmetologists in a straight razor is you can't use it on the skin. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

I was gonna say, but I don't think there's any rule requirement for that you can't use it on a on the hair.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:22

Because there's a few things.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

The rule's not the fact that you can't have a guarded razor. Like that's not, you know what I mean? Like it's the rule is that you just can't use a cosmetologist can't use one on the skin to perform.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

Which we've had people men ask, you know, I I want a skin fade, and I'm like, I can fade you, but I can't use a razor on your skin. And they're like, Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:43

Is a cosmetologist able to use uh an electric foil?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Yes, yeah. Do you have okay? I was gonna do that. I don't have one. That's what Jen's husband suggested. I was just about to say, girl, you better get you one. Yeah, I know. I know. I hate that I can't get it so tight. Like try as hard as I can. Like, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

But like I've never so when you're in school as long as I was, start doing more advanced techniques because you're like, well, I've got the basics, thank you. Um so doing razor cutting uh was definitely part of my education. But I've never used a straight razor with a guard. Yeah. So makes sense. Does that help? Does it make it take longer? I imagine it might help a little bit because you're not worried about hitting you.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:29

Honestly, I would I would take it off if if I were if I can. I'm gonna look more into that because I was always under the impression that I couldn't use it without a guard at all. And I've actually heard Natalie say that, so I don't know if that's just a you know misconception or like you said it's only just keep doing it on this iPad.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Yeah, I was gonna say it could very well just be like a misconception of the they're just umbrellaing it that you can't use a unguarded straight razor.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

It's all about the wording of the standard.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Right. And if it's the same uh education across the whole US, I know that there are people that don't because I follow them and that's how I'm learning a lot of the techniques that I'm learning.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:07

Nothing's the same across the US in our field.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

Okay. Nothing. Alright, so the the guard, no guard could be depending on the state.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

Some states Especially New Hampshire. Some states barbers can't use conventional straight razors, which has a really backwards justification because um supposedly for sanitation, where I could understand when doing a facial shave with a conventional straight razor. Do you know what that is?

unknown 1:05:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

Okay. So when you use a conventional, you have to strop.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

Sometimes if you're in the middle of a facial shave and they have a coarse beard, that razor would need to be stropped again. So it's not necessarily the sanitation for the razors, it is for the strop.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Because you can't go straight from the face to the strop without needing to disinfect the strop.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:49

However, the justification could be easily made. You just have multiple conventional straight razors in case of that. Yeah. So it's the ready to go. Now you can strop a fresh Sanitized razor onto a fresh sanitized strop, and you don't have to disinfect it and recondition it. But like there are states that don't allow barbers to use conventional. They go, from a sanitation standpoint, that doesn't make any sense because like our changeable blades have far more nooks and crannies for things to hide in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:16

Yes, they do. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:19

And then using a stupid, like, non-scientific justification of like the porosity of metal. Like, you realize everything here is made of metal? Yeah. It's all steel. They all have the same porosity. Unless you suddenly have a different Rockwell hardness that I'm not aware of.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

It definitely wouldn't make the job easier because I've I have to sometimes change my blade, you know, in the middle of my haircuts because the person does have a lot of hair or thick hair, coarse hair, and I can feel it as it's sliding. It's getting a little bit more jagged and like, you know, it's pulling, and I'm like, no, it's time to switch it out. And I've only, you know, I've been doing this cut for like 15 minutes and I already need to change it out. So it depends, but that would make my job easier if I could figure that out. So I'll look into that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:06

I would say it is a slightly higher risk when it comes to possibly putting holes where you don't want them. But it also depends on what cutting technique you're using. Like if you're doing like finger and razor, it's a lot safer than we're doing razor and comb.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Yeah, I I don't do razor and comb that often.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:22

Yeah, it's a different animal.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Because if you get a freshy and you're holding at the wrong angle, you're gonna be like hope. Because that cutting angle that we'd use to shade the face. Yeah. We do that on hair, it's gonna do the same thing. Yeah. Right through. Like butter.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Oh I know, I just got goosebumps. I just pictured a straight razor going through my skin. When at the beginning of my barber career, I was probably only a couple months in, I closed my straight razor on my pinky. Oh, and like I watched it happen in slow motion, but I couldn't stop it. And so seeing the smoothness of it go in my skin and come back, like it was just impressive. It was impressive. Like it happened so smoothly. I didn't bleed immediately. And then next thing it's just miserable, it's just terrible. No, I my my brain always goes back to that.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

I mean, uh somebody in my school class did close their razor on their hand. Yeah. Oh god, my pinkies. There have been some interesting accidents in barber school from people.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

Well, like, so they teach us in our barber school to do skin fades with a safety razor so that you can get baby butts moved like against the grain. Oh, yeah, because you can only go you can only go with the grain with a straight razor. Yeah. It's down only unless you hang them upside down. Not practical. Um be really good with your time. But so with the safety razor, you can go against. Well, there was a customer they were pulling their ear down and shaving about their ear, and their finger slipped and it hit right against the back part of the safety razor and like laid it open. Oh yeah, it was it was a sight. Eventually got super glue shut. It's fine. Like they declined to go to the hospitals. They came back, continued to come back, and it was just like a great story. He was gonna go into the Marines, so then it's like it's a good story to tell people. Well, when that happened, I think his recruiter was there. Oh man. As though he had to like man up and you know be tough. Yeah, tough in front of him. Yeah. So it just became like a cool story after that. He was a good sport. Have you ooh, have you had a a significant cut?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

On me or a client. Ye ooh, both. Either. Um Using my trimmers, I got, you know, little tiny dick in that little crevice. A little, yeah. On a uh one of my kiddos, and he's I was like, oh, I'm sorry. And he said, What? And I went, I just I just got your ear. Is that are you okay? And he's like, I oh, I didn't feel it. There's no way he didn't feel it. He was, I think, also trying to be tough because I was I like I could feel it. You know, just a little. And it was like a good, a good little bloody snuff. There was nothing significant. Yep. And it was like, you know, just right there. Um on myself, no, not not anything. Uh you know, no, I oh, I've cut myself probably at least once a week, but it's usually this song now. Um, the uh, you know, doing the uh quick cutting, and then I just get the knuckle. And I'm like, and then I pretend like everything's good, and then I just wait for a second, and then I look down and go, I'll be right back. And then, you know, I feel like an idiot, and they always just go, Are you okay? I'm good, this happens all the time. Not all the time, but enough that I'm used to it by now. But then you know it just like stings the rest of the time. You're like, this is well, I'm washing hair constantly, you know. So um, but my worst was actually a couple weeks ago when I was collecting my shears and my thinning shears to put inside the little bag to give to Joe to bring to the sharpener. And I went to just grab my shears and they were half like open. I needed to fix, you know, like the uh what do you want to call it? Yes, and that was my that was gonna be another thing. If he didn't do it, I was gonna do it when he was done sharpening them. And when I went to grab it, it kind of swung open, and I went to catch it, and by catching it, I closed it right on my finger. And the skin has finally grown back, but the edge of my pointer finger, yeah, it kind of took it right off. So the level of cringe that Cassie has during the stork is so entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:55

As soon as she said I started to drop it, like that was like one of the things that we were like it was almost beaten into us in school. Let it fall. So it was let it fall. Let it fall.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:08

It wasn't falling from anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

It was just from the flat surface, not so much from like cosmetology school, a little bit, obviously, because you're still dealing with shears, but definitely barber school. Because like you just have to get like me personally, I really had to get out of the habit of that because I'm very cat-like reflex.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Yes, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:25

I have cat-like reflexes, and so I'm always trying to go for it. But one of these times it's gonna be my shrimp. And so I as soon as you said I went to drop it, I was like, oh god, then she tried to grab it. I know where the story goes.

unknown 1:12:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

I'll let them fall. Right? I right? Well, yeah. No. I I don't think other than that, I've I've had any yet. I know they're coming. There's wood behind you. Feel free to knock.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:58

Good job.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:59

Knock down some wood.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:02

It's only a matter of time. It's not if it's when.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:05

Yeah. Natalie, uh, she said, you can't when it came when it came to my practical. She's like, you'll be fine. Because I actually filleted my finger open during the haircut. Like, so then she was able to show the radio blood procedure. And they were like, okay, you know, you're good. Like, does this count? Yeah. Can can this count as that, please? They they told her that's was, yeah, it was. They're like, just show us now, because we're not gonna make you redo that with like, you know, yeah. But she said it was it was blood like everywhere. And so she's like, if you if I passed and I did that, you'll be fine. So then I was scared that I was going to slice my finger open. No, I was fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

New fear. Yeah. Have you cut oh like have you like with your shears, have you cut a client?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:53

No, not yet. Have you, Cassie?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

With my shears?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:57

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Gotten close because of some of the young kiddos like we were talking about that like the move. Oh yes. And that's like my whole body just goes numb. Cause you're like, like you were saying, Cassie, where it's like, I could have just stabbed your eye out. Or I could have sliced part of your face. Like this is this is.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

Your whole body just tenses up.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

Yeah, yeah. Have you cut someone with your scissors?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:21

Yeah, these shears. You have? Uh-huh. Doing shear and comb technique in your the ear on a classic men's. Oh no. Cut right the ear. But it was just enough, like I some people have given me stories of like they folded somebody's ear in their shears.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

Yeah. Um I thankfully I did not do that. But I definitely gave him a little V, and this was an older gentleman, and he was on cumidin', so I made sure to like immediately apply pressure. And it didn't end up bleeding. Like it was like it had a V, but like he was fine. I gave him the haircut for free. I was like, I'm so sorry, so apologetic. He was like, you're fine. Like, absolutely not. That was whatever. That was exhilarating. I'm gonna lose sleep for the next three nights. But yeah, that was really the only one. And that's one of those like core memories. It's like, well, you do that once, and then every other time you're around somebody's ear, you're like, nope. But I did have a barber in my shop who their ear uh story was more uh the earlope, and it was kind of Pac-Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:30

I remember this story.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:32

It's a good thing you're sitting down. And yes, like she had freshly sharpened shears, and they like sharp like butter went right. Yeah. And she didn't even know that had happened. He didn't even know what had happened, or it's that sharp, until she like put her shears down and went back, and he was bleeding. Dripping. Yeah, dripping onto the cape. Yeah, earlobe dangling. Not dangling, but if you moved it, it could talk. It could talk. It could talk. You hear that, it would dangling. So I'm in the back room, I have no idea this is going on, but one of my other barbers comes in is like, um, I thought they might need your help.

unknown 1:16:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:13

So they've got gloves on and they're trying to like apply pressure and whatever, and they're internally freaking out. And because I'm not the one that caused it, I'm far more level-headed. Uh-huh. I'm like, oh hey, how's it going? A big conversation with the guy. I chow the situation. I'm like, oh, this is impressive. So I'm up, I'm applying. I was like, alright. I can give you one of two options. One, we can apply pressure. You're welcome to leave and go to the ER. They're probably just gonna super glue it for urgent care or whatever. I was like, or we can super glue it for you. He's like, my wife's a nurse, go ahead and super glue it.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Okay, so we didn't have any on hand, but Family Dollar was in pledge at the time. The poor barber who did the cut, sh they went to the family dollar, got super glue, put it on, and she was so distraught, she didn't even take off her gloves.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:09

She went there. Poor people like let her cut in line because she was like needing to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

Oh man. Poor thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:16

Yeah, but she was a trooper, like, she did great.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:19

She's still and he came in.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

He was still a customer for a few times after that. Um but yeah, that was. I will say that his blood was the very similar to what you see in the movie Sweeney Todd. Like it was oddly deeply red and thick. It bled through the cape, like onto his shirt. I felt bad that his shirt was ruined, but yeah. Obviously, he got a free cut. Yeah. And I think the next one was probably free too, but it was like I'm so sorry. Yeah. But those things happen, and boy, those are lessons you learned the first time.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:57

Yeah. No. Oh. I uh I I dropped hot or you know, hot wax, but soft wax on one of my clients while doing her um eyebrow wax. I got it on her little fuzzy, you know, like sideburner. And it took us about 20 minutes to get it off with the hoba oil trying to like soften it up, wouldn't come off. And she was not taking it like a trooper. She was a little bit, you know, upset, which yeah, but like the towel, it didn't matter. It was gonna get where it was gonna get the way that she was kind of sitting, and I was holding the stick with the wax on it, it just dripped right off. When yeah. So she got a few extra free um eyebrow waxes because of that, because we were like, she's not coming back, and she brings all of her kids to us. She comes to me for haircuts, and I was like, this is a disaster. So the next few times she was in, I was you know, immediately like, I'm not gonna do that again. She is fine, she understood, but in the moment, I was like, and I was supposed to be starting a manicure with my uh client who had her newborn who was not handling being in the salon very well, and I was like, I needed to get to it, and I was like going back and forth, like, I'll be right with you, I'll be right with you. I just have something over here, yeah. I'm trying to get the wax off.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

That sounds like hell. It was.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:30

It was hell. Yep. So now I'm like, I won't take uh uh any type of wax in between when I'm doing something like that's really click. If I have 15 minutes, don't do the wax, please, because I probably will get it done. But now I'm in my head. So like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

That whole Murphy's Law thing. So what's your goal for uh for this year in the profession? Like, what what's your main aim? What you want to work on?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:54

My main aim, I definitely want to feel more confident in formulating color. Because I thought it was going to be a breeze, and it is not a breeze. Science.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:09

Science is I yeah. Chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:12

I thought I was gonna love all that, which is why I'm saying like highlighting is my favorite right now because color scares me a little bit because you bleach is fine, but color pigments.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:23

I know, she's like, I'm fine with toning. Yeah, you're cool with toning, but you're not cool with color. Okay, that's as much of a friggin' myth.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

It d actually, you know, it depends if they want the blonde.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:35

I use the same formula until she recently started doing my hair. I use the same daggum formula on my hair every MF and time. I've done it for the last three years. It is a different shade of effing blonde every time. Every time. Yep, it's icier, it's whiter, it's more silver than the last time. I use the same toner. You use the same toner every time, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:01

No.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

Science. Hair is stupid.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:04

Yep. Which is why I will write down my formulas and then I'll use it and go, I don't know why your hair looks more a little bit more, but why is it so warm this time? And I'm like, that doesn't make sense because we didn't get unblonde from the last time and I purified you.

unknown 1:21:20

Like, what happened?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:21

Sometimes it it's the variables in the room.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:24

Uh-huh. Time of year. Could be, or if they're on medication, or if they have well water, or if they have town water, and they're lying to you, right? No one lies. No one comes in and lies. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:39

Everyone's really honest in their hair history.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:42

Yeah, it shows Dr.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:44

House, everybody lies. That's not true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:46

Do you want to tell me about it now, or I'll find out, you know, while it's while the bleach is pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

Whatever the lie is, just make sure it's not henna.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:57

Thankfully, haven't done any deal with that yet. Some of the girls in the salon have, and I'm like, oh no, it like doesn't come out. And it turns red. Like, even if it's not red, then simple dies.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

Don't mess with it. Doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:13

Crazy. Mm-hmm. Beautiful on if you can get that nice copper color from it, but don't try to get it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:21

I'll put straight goofy pigments in my hair all day long. Those I can work out.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:27

Don't give me that creative stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:32

But yeah, I think that's the that's the main thing. Um, you know, going forward and trying to I guess the biggest thing is being more confident. If there is no one else in the salon with me and I'm trying to color match someone, I always like question myself. And I know that I should like I can tell levels. That's the main thing. You look at the level of hair, if it's lighter or darker, whatever. And then you can figure out what they're trying to do, but then it's not that simple. So I'm getting there, but I'm definitely, you know, I want to be super, super confident in that by the end of the year. And I don't know if I will be. I know that I'll be more confident than I am now. So that's all I can that's all I can hope for. But that's kind of my goal right now. Not gonna give myself too many goals at a time because then I'll split myself in too many directions and then I won't actually absorb all the things I'm learning and trying to learn.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:26

So measured incremental progress. Yes, yeah, pace yourself. You got plenty of time. Because eventually you're gonna get bored with one aspect. Right. And you're gonna need to look to another one. Don't exhaust them all too quickly. Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. This is good. All right. Well, uh, we will see you all next week. Have a wonderful night. Have a good night.