From Bad Fits to Boundary Breakers: Reasons to Turn Away Clients

Bree and Cassy discuss the variety of circumstances when a professional may turn away a client, good bad or indifferent, along with some side tangent thoughts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Welcome back to Philosophy of the Barber. Welcome back, Cassie. Hello, hello. Time for a new week, new conversation topic. Today we'll be discussing when to turn a client away. Let's let's start with a limited perspective on it. And uh, you as a new business owner who is trying to grow a clientele, at what point would you see yourself, in what situation would you see yourself actively turning away a client?

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Honestly, especially since I am growing a business, I if I have like dead set plans after work. Like at the end of my day, if like someone's coming in like last minute or whatever, I'll I'll definitely stay late. I'm trying to build my book. There's a certain point of staying late, of course. I feel like we all have to have some kind of boundary in place so we're not overworking ourselves. But like if I don't have plans that I'm just going home to hang out on my couch, then why not just stay and do another haircut? Like, there's no point in turning somebody away. Might as well pull them in and have a chat, see what you can do. I feel like in other circumstances there could be I'd hate to say that I'd turn someone away on based on their behavior coming in the shop. But I feel like there was there would also be a limit. I don't I've not yet come across anything like that in my endeavors of working in any shops or anything, but I feel like given the area, we do have some a wide array of people and transients and stuff in the area. So not saying that they're they would cause problem, but I feel like if they're if someone came in was like really rude or just not in a place to get a haircut if someone came stumbling drunk into the shop and just like wouldn't be able to sit still in a haircut, like situations like that, I feel like I would also put my foot down and turn someone away if they were just completely off the wall, disrespectful, causing a ruckus kind of scenario. But hopefully I won't encounter such things. But I feel like you just never You will know. Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like I feel like I might have heard a story or two once upon a time of some people that have been had had to been kicked out of shops and such, so.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

Yes, I've had my fair share of having to ask people to leave my establishments for various reasons. Um, several of which you've listed. Uh, but also it's in your current position. Single, single-chair business owner. Like the the main thing you have to worry about at home, if they are at home, is your dog. There are plenty of people who have families who have children. Like, it's one of those like you have to prioritize things differently when there are more variables in your life like that.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 2:55

So it's like, hey, if you want to make that little league game, sometimes you're gonna have to turn them away. Yep. And there's also like certain instances where it's like, hey, I don't like just like timing issue, especially if you've never cut their hair before. Like if you have 20 minutes, uh 20-minute gap between people, it's one thing if it's gonna be an easy cut, sure, I can rock that out in 20 minutes. But if you don't know their head, or if it's been months since their hair cut, so it's like way overgrown, you don't know where they got cowlics, what that world's gonna do when it gets to a certain length, all those variables, like I am not going to put that person in the position of having to rush through them in order to get my appointment stuff on time. Because guess what? I'm not a doctor. People are not forgiving of me running late, and I'm not forgiving of myself running late. Yeah. Absolutely not. So I am not gonna do that customer a disservice by rushing their first service in my chair.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

I will say, ironically enough, I actually, majority of the time that I would squeeze people in between clients, like at the whole shop, especially, it's always ends up being like, they're like, oh, can I come? They call, they come want to come in for a haircut, they sit in the chair, they're like, Yeah, I want a skin fade. And I'm just like, oh, okay, this is gonna be a little bit more time than I anticipated on. And I always ended up running late, so I actually stopped doing that and just or really I start doing more of a consultation on the phone before I start asking more questions because I need to know better what I'm working with for that exact reason because I also don't like running behind.

SPEAKER_05 4:34

It's important for people to be able to like their time matters.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

So I get like, hey, if you got a life situation where you can't, like at this minute, you just happen to have time to see if somebody can take you. All right, but you know you're rolling the dice. And if I can, I can. Great, fantastic. Yep. If I can't, though, I can't. But I'm more than happy to try and work you into the schedule some other time when I have enough time to dedicate to you. Because at a certain point, it's like, I'm not offering you the service you deserve at the price point that I offer.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:07

If I'm shortchanging you your time, because that's what you're paying for. You're paying for my time serving you. If I if I'm rocking out somebody in 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes, I can do it if necessary. But you know, I had somebody this week who came in and he was like, I've got a meeting, like a corporate meeting in a half an hour. And it's a haircut and a beard trim. I know his haircut, easy haircut, easy beard trim, not a problem. Yep. I was like, just don't talk to me very much. Yeah, yeah. Even with that, we still had a good conversation. I was still able to get it done in like 20 minutes, the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:44

And he's like, Oh, I still have time. Great, but if you're a first-timer, I just can't guarantee that.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, honestly.

SPEAKER_05 5:53

And I care too much about other people's time. For whatever reason, I care way too much about how like other people's money.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:00

Like I I have I have way too much of a concern of putting myself in a position to where I could even be perceived as trying to take advantage of somebody. Yeah. Like, absolutely not. I I refuse to put myself in that position.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

Yeah. I agree. You're 100% that's exactly what you're paying for, is my time. And I I take that very seriously.

SPEAKER_05 6:20

Yep. That's why I I charge chemical services based on time. It's the I'm getting paid the same hourly rate no matter what service I am offering. That way I'm not incentivizing or disincentivizing myself to prefer doing some services over others.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Yeah. Yeah. I it's just easier to do it across the board. You're paying for what no matter what I'm doing, it's the time that matters.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

Yep. I mean, unless there's something that you really don't like doing and you want to do like the wedding pricing where it's like, because I hate doing this, but I'm licensed for it, I'm just going to like price it an exorbitant amount of money. And hey, if you want to pay that, that is my price to do that thing that I don't like to do. Yeah. If I was in the salon world, that would be pedicures. Yes. Nails. That was the the sticking point why like I could not do cosmetology. It's like, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

I managed to get out of most of my practicals pedicures. Um, also, well, I also, towards the end of my time there, because I had so much built-up time during COVID, I kind of became like teacher's helper on the floor with a lot of girls, and I was done most of my counts, so they would just give me other counts. They'd be like, Alright, what do you want marked off for helping today? And I'd be like, Petticares, just mark those off. So I don't have to do those. I obviously had to do a couple for the the practice of it and such, but not with any just random people off of the it was all my classmates. It was not. Because in the salon world, that would be a service that I would turn away. That would be a client that I would turn away. I'd be just like, uh, sorry, we're not not offering that today. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 8:04

If you want to pay me$200, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Then, of course. Yep, let's do it. But a$35 pedicure? Nope. I'm actually kind of shocked at the pricing of some of those services, but that's neither here nor there. Back to the task at hand. Uh now, there's been a lot of discussion on the internet recently of uh I'd say kind of an over-generalization. Uh, not that it's not true in some cases, but I I fear that the generalization kind of leads to putting yourself in the position of going, kids today don't have any work ethic of barbers who are sitting around waiting for their next appointment and probably have like, you know, an hour but are turning away walk-ins. Now, in that particular scenario, sure, I think that's a detriment to them.

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 8:55

And the question would be like, do you want to cut hair? And and that's a fair question to ask in that scenario.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Honestly, like, maybe sometimes you're just not in the headspace. Like, I have to take that into consideration. Because, like, if you're there have been some days where I like I love my job, don't get me wrong. Like, I've never felt like I'm going to work when I get up and come to work every day. Like, it's just not that kind of feeling. And I know eventually I'll probably hit a burnout, like I know everybody does, and I'll go through my phase, but in the meantime, I still love it. But where I've kind of been looking forward to those, like if I've got a couple like big gaps in my day, I almost kind of look forward to those moments. Now, granted, when it when push comes to shove and a client does come in, I I put money and mind over matter and I I do what I need to do. But in the back of my mind, I'm just like, darn it, I really kind of wanted to just chill by myself right now and not have to work through another conversation because sometimes you're just not sometimes that's the work.

SPEAKER_05 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Like the haircut's easy, but like sometimes it's just the conversation, especially if it's gonna be a new client, you don't know what you gotta like bringing to the table.

SPEAKER_05 10:10

Well, and you gotta ease into small talk and kind of like figure out what sort of uh conversation of substance you can enter into. And that's a whole like search and rescue sort of a thing.

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Now, versus like if it was like one of my regulars that called in and I was not in that headspace, sometimes I can just be some of my guys I can just be very transparent with, and they just keep the conversation to a minimum, not on purpose, but just they they get it.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

They're they feel the vibe, they're reading the room.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 10:41

There's also the in an appointment only situation, like myself, and I put a cap on like when people can book an appointment. Like, sorry, if I've got an opening and it's an hour before that opening, nobody's gonna be able to book it online because I need to know things a certain amount of time in advance. Yeah, that's the type of person I am. I need to mentally prepare for things. Yep. If I could not be surprised, that'd be great. Now, that's not to say that like when you've been out to lunch and somebody walked in and I happen to be able to take somebody because I ate my lunch in 15 minutes and I'm like, well, I would just be reading.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:19

So I'll take somebody. I'm cool with that, but that's certainly not something I'm seeking out to do on a regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:25

So if I have a gap in my day, chances are I'm already dedicated that time to doing a function, whether it's picking up laundry or you know, cleaning around the shop, putting stuff away, like I'm engaged in something. I'm like, I've got time to do things. Cool, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 11:45

Because in a packed day, I don't have time to do any of those little things, and it's like I am extra tired because I didn't get any of those little breaks. Yep. And little breaks is is sometimes the difference between a burnout and not a burnout.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

Yeah, I could see that. Cause like those just having like a little 15-minute gap here and there on like when I would have like packed days like that, that makes the world of difference. To be able to just either like step outside, really go to the like bathroom and just like relax for a minute, sit down somewhere, it makes a world of difference.

SPEAKER_05 12:22

Well, because I mean when you when you are an employee in other professions, like there are laws that protect the fact that you get those breaks. Yeah, oh yeah. Uh, you know, when you're working for yourself, you can it's up to you what you do. However, that's in our context when we have like schedules that have people in them, and we're like, cool, I get the chance to take a break, not the oh, I have a bunch of openings in my day, and I'm just sitting around while still turning away people.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:52

That's a different animal. Yes, yes. That then, yes, certainly begs the question: does this a job you want to do? Or you just want to hang out with your buddy? Yeah. And I feel like what are you doing in your free time to make you have less free time? Why are you just sitting around, even if there's nobody walking in? Like, why are you just sitting around? Why aren't you going out and marketing yourself? Why aren't you introducing yourself, becoming a well-known face in the business area that you happen to be located? Like network, I hate that word, but network, get to know people, make connections with individuals outside of your chair in order to get people inside your chair. That's the business you're in, is connecting with people. And unfortunately, I really do hate, and I know this is a valid perspective to have on the profession. There are plenty of people that cut hair that do it to cut hair. Yes, that's fair, that's valid. That if that's the position that you take to this profession, good on you. Do you if you're happy, I'm happy. That is not the perspective that I have in this profession. My perspective is that I connect with people. I just have to be doing it while cutting their hair.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:16

Like the haircut becomes secondary once we've figured out what you want. It's really everything else that happens during that time that is what I enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Like, I do I I 100% agree with you. I and I also, it's like I get to connect with people, and then haircutting's a bonus for me. It's like I also enjoy that. Like, I'm also good at that. Like I have I have fun doing it. I like having complicated little things sometimes that have to that make me work for the haircut almost. And but I'm definitely very much in the connecting with people, like I get so much more fulfillment from the experience with my client and their family or whatever the case may be, over cutting hair.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Well, and I feel like if you recognize that as the foundation of the profession, then you will survive your first burnout. And your second if you have a second, and and so on. Like burnouts are basically you life going, hey, you need to learn something, you need to figure something out because this is not balanced.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:25

So you need to figure out your balance. So that's what burnouts are a warning of is like you're off balance. Yeah, you need to change something.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Oh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 15:35

And so I think I had two or three burnouts. So, like, I had some things to learn when it came to balancing out my life and really figuring out what the point was. Like, well, what made me show up?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:47

Because when I first opened a shop, I never wanted to be alone in the shop. I never wanted to be working by myself. I always wanted to have at least one other barber there with me. That way we could tag team on as far as like um scattering, you know, staggering lunches. Yeah, like there was always somebody manning the area. But now I've completely flipped. I'm like, I love one-on-one with my clients. Yep. That's it. Like, that's all I want in the world is just like me and my clients. It's great. I mean, obviously, I love having you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it, just it works out great. But we have our own space.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yes, yes. Which I think really helps me because I was so nervous about being a solo, like a solo barber in a solo shop because I like the back and forth off of each other. I like the socializing aspect of it. And so I was afraid that it was gonna become. I don't know, I was I was nervous for the awkward, stagnant moments where the conversation lulls. You know what I mean? I was I was nervous that I wouldn't be able to like keep it up on your own. Yeah, yeah. I didn't I didn't know what I would be capable of. You underestimate yourself. And now, like, it's it works out really well because like they the connections have shifted in different ways, and the kiddos get to open up more, and just everybody it becomes everyone's face when they're in it. It's like becomes personalized to them every time they're in there, and it became it just it works out cool because then I still have the bonus of you right here, yeah, off to the side over here.

SPEAKER_05 17:27

Well, it is noticeable even when uh say your next client comes in a little early, like it it is a noticeable energy change when another person enters the room. Yes, you're like, uh, we can't talk the way that we were just talking.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Yep. I do appreciate though that when the next client that comes in is one of my more sociable guys and will then engage in the conversation with us. There's there's some that will just like tuck themselves to the side, sit on their phone and not really look up and engage with us and and try to continue to let me and the client in the chair have our moment still. And then there's some that just accept the fact that they're in the space and then interject and engage in the conversation and stuff. And I like I don't care about either or, but I I do like when there's more engagement and they decide to chat up with us.

SPEAKER_05 18:17

Well, it's also helpful in like a it's like an informal introduction sort of a thing. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, we're we're all in this conversation now. And now you like if you see each other in public, you'd be like, oh hey, we got on the same barber.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah, exactly. My extra favorite is when they do actually end up knowing each other.

unknown 18:34

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

I enjoy it when they're like related by marriage or something. Yeah. Um circle back to when to turn a client away. Yeah. There was obviously the um the infamous text message man. The the text messages that I have from 2015.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah. Yes, text message man.

SPEAKER_05 18:54

So, yeah, when do I turn somebody away? Um, when I have not had a single break, but I have been cranking for like four or five hours. If I haven't peed, I haven't eaten, and I'm about ready to collapse, that's when I turn somebody away.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

And that's of course the the era of walk-ins. You go, yeah. You go, oh, you're giving me an ultimatum? Either I cut your hair right now or you leave. Bye. Bye. Yeah. Because that's clear disrespect. Like you don't give a crap about me as a human being. Nope. So I'm not gonna care about your haircut because my health is more important than your haircut.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:33

So defending my own personal boundaries, yeah, I'll turn you away any day of the week. Bye. Um, I've fired a couple clients, so that counts as turning them away.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

Uh, for not respecting my time repeatedly. You go, if you've gotten two no-shows and you've not paid my no-show fee, you don't get another appointment. I'm gonna tell you over the phone that no, I'm not going to book you. Yeah. You can book with somebody else. Yep. Because you're not wasting my time a third time. Absolutely not. If you are actively nodding off mid-movement, that is obviously due to a substance issue. Yeah. I will ask you to leave my shop. Yeah. You shouldn't be there. Yeah. There are other places that you could be. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Has that been a numerous occasion during your your years of ownership?

SPEAKER_05 20:22

No. For the most part, I think anything substance related. We've had some first thing in the morning people who are obviously still smelling of alcohol from the night before or that morning. But they tend to be at least more well behaved. Like they can function enough to receive a haircut. Yeah. And so, like, that's that's that kind of a thing. But if it's like so bad that you are legitimately like mid-movement. Yeah. Dude, how I I can't cut your hair because like not only are you nodding off, so you're gonna be doing that in the chair the whole time. Yeah. A lot of times those people will also get the sweats. And that's also an inconvenience.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Yes. Sweating is not conducive to hair cutting.

SPEAKER_05 21:14

No. Uh, and talc can only do so much. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, that that entire situation is just like time and a place. Yeah. Oh, if somebody's like pre-COVID, I did have an older gentleman come in wearing a mask. And I asked, I was like, so why are you wearing a mask? Because that was weird back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. And he informed me that he had like a a cold or flu or something like that. And I was like, Sir, I have to refuse you service because you're sick.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

For sure. Like, by law, I am required to res refuse service to anybody who has any something contagious.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Well, then he came in wearing a mask.

SPEAKER_05 21:53

I know he was he was trying to be Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Oh, absolutely. I yeah, I can consider it, but it's like But pre-COVID, that is just odd. That just not something you would have seen.

SPEAKER_05 22:03

Outside of Asia. Like Asian countries have been doing that forever.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

Fair, yes.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

But yeah. In the US, before COVID? What? Yeah, so that was very, very odd. But it's like consider true consideration for people would be not coming in while you're just rescheduling.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Like it's not that serious. You shouldn't just pre-COVID. This was the era of walk-ins. Yeah, yeah, fair. Walking a different day, sir.

SPEAKER_05 22:28

Yeah. It was the hey, as soon as you feel better, come back in. I'd be happy to give you a haircut. But like I can't. Ooh, there's one I remember turning away somebody. Because uh a mother came in with her child. And this was like the shop was empty. It was like like peak lunch hour. Most people were like off taking their lunch. And this mother comes in with her young son to get a haircut. And so he's like running around the shop. Now, there are several areas of the shop that were marked like employee only because there's stairs, there are things like chemicals and stuff, women, all sorts of things that are like and he is just running around all over. She's not doing anything about it. He's opening doors. I'm just like, ma'am, you need to take your son and you need to leave.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:18

Because you are not taking his safety seriously.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:21

And you are not going to deal with my insurance when something happens to him because you're not minding your son.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:27

So not only are you not getting a haircut today, you need to get out now.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

Because that showed me was like, all right, this is him not in the barber chair. Yeah. That means you're gonna be zero help with making a mind in the chair.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Correct. We did have a situation about this was in barber school though, where we had to turn away this woman. Her, oh, I wanna say he was like two. And as soon as he came in, he was already terrified. Terrified of the atmosphere, just everything. He he already didn't like it. And we attempted to like put him in the chair, all sorts of things, and he was just hysterical. He was not happy to be there, he's crying, and the mom is just like, Well, he needs a haircut. And my teacher, of course, my teacher stepped over because now this is no longer just a student mother conversation. Like, this is the teacher will handle it. And so teacher comes over and she's like, I'm sorry, but like if he's not wanting to sit in the chair, like we can't, we're not gonna make him. And the mom's like, Well, can't I just sit there and like hold his arms down and hold him still so that way we can get the haircut? And my teacher's like, No, I'm sorry, but you need you need to go. Like, if he can't get a haircut, we're not gonna make the event more traumatic for him by forcing him through the haircut.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

And I'm sorry, but his hair wasn't even that long. Parents, just let it let him be shaggy if it's necessary. It's okay.

SPEAKER_05 24:58

Or you cut it for a bit. Yeah, like it's okay. Like, your kid doesn't have to look picture perfect all the time. No, there are so many kids running around with at-home haircuts, it's fine. It it really is It's a rite of passage to have the embarrassing haircut photo from school. Like, that's fine. Honestly, it's not the end of the world. Like, oh no, your Instagram reel is just gonna not be as cool. Well, that's the thing, like, you know, life priorities and some things are like, is this really that serious to you that you're gonna like cause your son to have nightmares? Now, don't get me wrong, at the beginning, like of my career, it was definitely a different method of thought as far as like kids' haircuts go. Like, hey, as long as the kid's not doing anything unsafe, if they're just crying, sure, we can still get a haircut if the kids want to cry. Because sometimes that just happens. As long as they're not doing anything unsafe.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:51

It's when they're like flailing around and like having a straight up conniption that's like this isn't safe for the kid, this isn't safe for the barber, this isn't safe for anybody. So yeah, I am not a fan of the oh, strap them down and just force them. Yeah, it's not worth it for anybody. Now, the you know, getting on the kid's level and like trying to build a rapport, that that's how you build clientele. Like if if they need, you know, a more comfortable situation and you have the ability to, you know, rock a haircut while they're playing on Legos, cool. Yeah, do what you gotta do. I have my own limitations when it comes to interacting with kids, so I have to work within those. That means I'm not gonna take just any kid in my chair. Yeah. And but I'm willing to deal with that limitation. At least I take kids, because I mean there's so many places that don't take kids. Not at all, yeah. Speaking of turning away customers, yeah. Like that can be a generational thing of like, you're just turning away an entire lifetime worth of haircuts, possibly. Yeah. Like the potential, yeah, and not just that, but like their kids maybe one day.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 26:59

Like this is this is a long-term investment. I've been cutting a kid's hair since he was four. He didn't speak to me for the first year and a half. He was so irritated that he had to get a haircut. But really, good parenting. They made him my he knew that he had to do what he was told.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:16

But he knew he didn't have to be happy about it.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:19

Which is fine. Now, to this day, he's still a soft talker. Even though he's in his like middle school growing out hair phase, which is totally fine. He's got fantastic hair. When he does want a haircut, he still comes to me. Yeah. This is like 10 years later.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Goals.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

Seriously, those are my goals in this profession.

SPEAKER_03 27:40

And that's and honestly, and that's one of the reasons I like kids, is because that's what that's what I strive for. Like, I want to be there for like getting to do prom haircuts, and like I want to be there for those monumental moments and stuff. Like, that's it's part of the connection I like to have with my clients why I do all this. I couldn't imagine just not offering to cut kids' hair.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

I couldn't imagine being a barber for more than 10 years when I first started. But that's because I could never picture myself doing anything, like ever. And you know, that whole like question when you're a kid, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could never answer that question. Ever.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

I was like, how can you possibly imagine yourself doing something you've never done? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like I was never somebody who was like, I want to be a fireman, I want to be a police officer, I want to be an astronaut. Yeah, that's not me. I'd like. I take things at face value, right? Yeah. So I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

It's funny that I've I very quickly stopped picturing what I wanted to be when I grew up after the first one because I wanted to be a veterinarian, and I'm pretty sure I said that wrong, but it's fine. And then I found out that they had to put down animals. Also, I s I've learned the reality of the job, and I was like, mm-mm, nope. And then I was like, I d couldn't possibly know what I would be okay with then if like that's the case. I don't know the dirty details of any of these things.

SPEAKER_05 29:14

Right. Well, and even like the jobs that you're exposed to from your parents and other family members, none of them ever appealed to me. Like, I do not have the same interests or even like my brain just doesn't connect with things the same way as any member of my family that I could speak of. Yeah. Um, so I was like, mmm, can I picture myself working for a grocery store uh from the age of 16 until I retire? No. Certainly I cannot. Could I picture myself working in food service? No, I vowed to never do that. Um which I have kept. And so it's like, could I picture myself working as a corrections officer? Nope. Like, nothing anybody in my family did. I was like, oh, that sounds good. That sounds like fun.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Sounds like fun.

SPEAKER_05 30:11

Yeah, it was just like, hmm. I don't know what I like until like it was a freshman year of high school, they had us take like tests to figure out like what career paths your um skill set, your interests may lead you to. Mine came up with marriage counselor. Really?

SPEAKER_01 30:31

This is an interesting new piece of information. So I can't not see it.

SPEAKER_05 30:39

I do have uh an interest. I'm a natural listener, and I have an interest in people. So given that information, even back then, fair. Yeah, fair assessment. Yeah. Why specifically a marriage counselor, I do not know. Yeah, but I've counselor could have blanketed it. Yeah, I pulled back and I was like, but what's the just like general profession of so it's like psychology? And so I took psychology in high school and loved it. Hated sociology. I don't like putting people in boxes, I don't like being put in a box. Sociology is the study of large groups.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Ah, okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 31:17

So it's very general type of things. Got you. Okay. Cultures.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

I real quick was like, literally, they put people in boxes. I was like, that doesn't sound anything like to what I thought physiology was.

SPEAKER_05 31:30

That's a mortician.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Yeah. I knew those were not anywhere near the same word.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

So at least by that point there were some indicators to be like, you might like something that deals with talking to people. Yeah, yeah. Even though, like, going straight into the military. Ugh. I hated the concept of customer service. Hated it. But then I had injuries that put me in a position where I had to deal with the public, like before you got on post deal with the public. Which I ended up acquiring customer service skills. That I was like, I don't really mind that now. Like I used to be super cynical, like people suck. Yeah. Which, I mean, people in groups suck. People as a plural suck. Yes. Persons, individuals. Individuals. Fantastic, fascinating creatures. Yes. That I thoroughly enjoy. I agree. Actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

I very much agree with that statement. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 32:37

And I believe that uh if you are bored talking to somebody, you are not listening well enough. Yeah. Because if you listen well, people will tell you everything.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

All sorts of things.

SPEAKER_05 32:50

And if you're listening, then it's like, that's like their experiences, their education, their struggles, their own ignorance. Like so many things you can learn without having to go through it all. Like, how sweet is that? It's like getting a little cheat sheet, clips notes.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Yeah. I love getting to learn about people's just life experiences and different things, and I'm getting more and more comfortable asking dumb questions.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

No such thing.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

You know what I mean? But you just like, I'm okay with not understanding what you're saying to me and wanting to decipher more of what you're saying to fully understand what we're talking about here. Whether it's simple as like a man talking to me about like a car mechanic's job, like something that he's doing because I get curious, or if it's something with hardscaping, like it doesn't even have to be this big grand concept, but I'm not afraid to ask like silly questions to just learn more. Oh, side note on that.

SPEAKER_05 33:49

I want you to know I did not know what RSVP stood for.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

You looked it up, didn't you? No. Oh. I took your word for it. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 34:00

Oh, okay. I didn't oh, okay, I see now. I thought you looked at it because it's wild. I can't pronounce it.

SPEAKER_05 34:09

Yeah. No, but I wanted you to know that no. I did not know.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

That is wild. For those of you that don't know, I'm not very familiar with Brie not already knowing things before me.

SPEAKER_05 34:20

The expectation of my knowledge has been set very high. No, she said it there.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

She's just a cornucopy of knowledge.

SPEAKER_05 34:30

Well, you have to be eventually when you cut hair for 12 years. That's why I ask more questions. And read. The combination of the two is just a powerhouse.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Yeah, but the reading I do is not very knowledgeable.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

I disagree. It's you learn in different ways.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Fair.

SPEAKER_05 34:51

Well, you might not be reading like a non-fiction, like self-improvement style book, but you're reading books that are getting you more familiar with vocabulary.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 35:00

Like you're coming up with things that you have to look up because you don't know what they are, which is educating yourself.

SPEAKER_04 35:06

Fair.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

I learned what a cul-de-sac was by watching Ed, Ed, and Eddie. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

That's also how I learned what a cul-de-sac was, actually.

SPEAKER_05 35:13

I learned what the plural of cul-de-sac was from Gilmore Girls. Do you want to know what it is? Culstac.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

What? Yeah. Oh, the plural goes into the beginning, the first word? Yeah. Well, the first section of the word. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

Because it's isn't it dashed? I don't know. Oh. I will never spell that. Voice to text.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Culsta sac.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Wild.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

See, you can learn from anything as long as you're listening.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Yep. As long as you're listening.

SPEAKER_05 35:49

Alright, now circling back around.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Yep. Round we go.

SPEAKER_05 35:52

What other instances do you think uh might come up when it comes to turning away a client? I will say going along with the like required by law reasons.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. If there's lice. If there's lice, unfortunately, you've got to go. If you're sick, if you're like coughing up a lung, get out of my chair. Like, don't take it.

SPEAKER_05 36:17

If you've identified something that you cannot diagnose, but you think may be something contagious. Ringworm. All that kind of stuff. Yep. Skeebies.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

For sure. Um also turning down a client on a day off. Oh yeah. For sure. Um, which we've we've touched on, I know I've touched on previously when we were talking about like boundaries and stuff like that, but same goes. Like I will at least once a month I will get a message on Facebook from a client whose hair I've cut before, usually on a Sunday, asking for a haircut on a Monday. Eight times out of ten. And it would be so easy for if I'm around to do that.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Don't do that.

unknown 37:00

Don't do that.

SPEAKER_05 37:01

I will only do that for frostomers. Yes. And that's making it explicitly clear to them that this is a personal favorite.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

That it will not become a pattern. Yes. Same with like, of course, emergency scenarios, last minute kinds of sorts of things. Funerals, like things that are like happen and life is just Yes, life is life. Then absolutely. In fact, though that's usually a guarantee of getting taking a customer. Is like if you if life is lifing, or like you got a bad haircut somewhere, come on. I am amazed. I'll squeeze you in, I'll put you somewhere, I'll whatever, you don't have to, you don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_05 37:47

I'm amazed at how many customers get a terrible haircut and don't ask. I I'm like, please ask, because I don't want you walking around town like that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

It's always, yeah, after my last cut, I went to this, I went to this other place, and now I've had to wait a month and a half for this haircut because it was terrible. Then why didn't you come see earlier? We could have tried.

SPEAKER_05 38:14

Well, and it's because I mean it's always the story of I really needed a haircut, but like I couldn't get in with you. Yeah. So I had to go to this other place. Yep. That's like, what what would have been a worse outcome? You being a little more shaggy till you could get in with me? Or you getting jacked up and then having to pay again to get it fixed. Like, sometimes that needs to be measured, but all other times it's like, hey, you're at a pinch. You gotta do what you gotta do. I'm not gonna judge you, like, I'm happy to see you no matter what.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Yeah. I I find it so funny when when the client almost like comes across as guilty, like they're making a confession. Oh, they got the whole tail between their legs. I cheated on you, I'm so sorry. They have like have to confess that they went somewhere else, and I'm like, you see where you are now? That's all that matters. Like you can't as long as you keep coming back here, it's fine. I won't take it personally. Don't worry. Like, especially with the I was out of town for work, I needed to get a quick haircut between meetings, blah blah blah. Well, don't worry, I'll fix your catalog for you.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

It's like, well, you're home now. Welcome back.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Yep. I appreciate that there's I've come across two gentlemen now that they're snowbirds, and so they do the travel back and forth thing. And I'm assuming, this is just my assumption, that after getting their hair messed up so many times from doing the back and forth and always having to start over, that these two gentlemen show up with cliff notes from a previous stylist slash barber of what they do, so that way you it's just instructions on what to do on the sides, the top, good to go. And they keep it in their wallet so that way whether they're coming here or going south, they can give the prospecting person that instruction list, they know exactly what haircut to give them.

SPEAKER_05 40:05

I had a customer that got jacked up with his flat top in Florida so bad. Oh my gosh. By the time he made it back to me, it grew out to the point where he decided to change his haircut. Oh my gosh. To not be a flat top anymore because he didn't want to get jacked up again.

SPEAKER_03 40:24

I mean, I can't say that I'm surprised. I don't feel like Florida would be notorious for a flat top.

SPEAKER_05 40:33

It's unfortunate though, because you see tons of places who can do fantastically difficult haircuts, nigga. A flat top, though it takes practice, is not a difficult haircut. It just takes practice.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

I feel like they would have a better handle on ethnic flat tops, like more ethnic hairstyle flat tops.

SPEAKER_05 40:56

I can see that.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Which it's different.

SPEAKER_05 40:59

Yes. And no. Correct. It does depend on the hair. Yes, yes. Now, like if you had somebody with like a mean calic in the front and you gotta like stick that sucker up, yeah. Alright, that can be a bit of an issue. But generally speaking, you're shaping it like a shrub.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Yeah, that's how I feel. So, like, I don't have an official flat top, but he's kind of flat toppers. We're we're close, we're basically there. His hair just sticks up on its own, so I don't have to do that. But it's basically a flat top, but I feel like Edward scissor hands when I do it. Tobiaries, yes, that's also how I feel with big beards, too, though. Oh, yeah. I just I just channel my inner Edward.

SPEAKER_05 41:41

So imagine how many people turn away haircuts, not because they don't want to take a customer, but because they know they can't do the haircut.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Oh, so technically, uh we won't say turned away. I've technically made accommodations for both walk-in, a couple walk-ins, and one person scheduled with me that did turn out to be flat tops, and because of their demeanor and assumed protection of said flat top, I made accommodations for them to end up in your chair.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

So that way they were not insulted, I were not insulted, nobody's feelings got hurt, they got the haircut that they wanted. In fact, one of the times it actually worked out perfectly that Brie, I believe, had a child in her chair. Yes. And I can tend have a tendency to be the child whisperer, so we just didn't even swap, and she got a flat top, and I got the child, and it worked out great.

SPEAKER_05 42:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Well, and but yeah, if they're I feel a lot more comfortable and confident in my skill set now that even if I was to get a flat top, I'd obviously have that conversation of hey, not super well-versed in this, but I feel comfortable enough. And now having watched and learned a little bit more about how techniques to do them better, I feel like I would be more open to accepting things. I don't feel like I'd turn someone away for a haircut style at this point because I feel I feel confident enough that I can figure it out. Like if I've not done it yet, even if it's like a longer style haircut, I feel like I can figure it out.

SPEAKER_05 43:24

Well, and like would you feel comfortable enough that in the middle of doing a flat top that you would ask me for help if you need it? Yeah, yep, exactly. Cool, because it's like that's always a thing. Yeah. And that takes a certain amount of humility, but it's like, especially if you're in a shop and you have people who know more than you, like that humility is going to be like your customer will be grateful that you're willing to be honest and seek for more guidance. Because that means they know that you have their uh haircut in mind. Like you want to make sure that it's the best product, especially if you are struggling to get to that level.

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Yeah, it's funny. Um a previous barber that we worked with actually made a comment to me one time that he likes to be the least, and which mind you, he's got at least a double my years in experience. I think he's got like eight years experience. I could be wrong. But he said that he likes to be the least experienced, one of the least experienced people in the shop, because then he'll never be able to stop learning off of the more experienced people and getting help and and whatever the case may be. And when he said it to me, I was like, Oh, that's a really cool way to look at it, instead of looking at it in the oh crap, like I'm not as good as these people, or whatever the case may be, like undercutting yourself, which is kind of what I always go to, surprise, surprise. But getting that little spin on it was cool.

SPEAKER_05 44:54

Well, yeah, it's the you never want to be the smartest person in the room. I would rather somebody turn away a client honestly, yes, due to a hairstyle they are not confident in than lie to their face and tell them, oh yeah, I can rock a flat top, not a problem. Yeah. And then you jack them up. Yes. Like, I would rather you be honest with that customer than cause them that grief.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Correct. I I one, I don't think I'd be able to get through the haircut if I was trying to like pull some wild, like, mystery card like that. I don't think I'd be able to like I feel like I'd be an anxious mess the whole time.

SPEAKER_05 45:38

Like fake it till you make it only works in certain instances. When you have to execute something, they're going, can you do this? Especially if they ask you three times because they've dealt with this before. Yes. And you're telling them, oh yeah, yeah, I'm great, totally fine. And they're like, gonna be great. Okay. And now you've just like caused them to not trust professionals even more in the future. Yep. So because when you're a professional and you you're in that situation, you are representing all other professionals. Yes. Like, sorry, we're in a box, we're all the same to people. Um, but that's reality. It's like you just made our profession that much less reputable by lying. And that's not cool. Nope.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

For anybody. Nope. No, because again, it comes down to if you're I kind of feel like it comes down to you're just trying to cut hair or make those connections. Because like if you care, you won't put them in your chair. Yep. But if you're just trying to make a dollar, you're absolutely just gonna fudge your way through whatever to make that buck. Yep. And that's the thing. I don't know how often I I've never had it happen. I don't know if you've ever had it happen, but people, to my knowledge, don't often say they're not gonna pay for their haircut. No. You know what I mean? Like most people, even if it's like a bad haircut and they like leave a little unsatisfied, they usually still pay for their haircut and then just complain about having to have paid for that afterwards. You know what I mean? Yes. So, like, you're taking their money regardless of their happiness, and now they're just mad about it.

SPEAKER_05 47:13

Well, and more often than not, if a free haircut or if a haircut is not paid for, it's usually on my end as the barber, recognizing that I did like I could not achieve the level of quality that I wanted to achieve, most especially early on in my career. It's like I am not happy with this product. You might be, but I am not. Yeah, I like it's the I know I'm capable of more, but I struggled with this one. Yeah. So I'm I'm always willing to give a free haircut if that's the case. Yes. Um, the other one is like just communication or something if a an occurrence happens during the haircut service. Like, you know, those learning curves of cutting people's ears, or you know, things like that. Yep. Uh free haircuts, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Hey, yep, absolutely. Um I I handed out a couple at the beginning, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I uh didn't I wasn't good well versed in my consultation side of things, and a man told me he wanted my clipper on its longest setting. So I thought he meant that was just my clipper open. And I was like, that doesn't sound right. It just doesn't sound right. And so I did like a three, I think. Because it just I was too scared to cut that much off his hair, and I was like, I'll just work my way down. Homie definitely wanted like a six for sure.

SPEAKER_05 48:40

I don't even know what a six is for sure.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

It's what exactly a five and a six are two things that should just never be used on a clipper. Yeah, the concept of a six sounds like shears should be used. Correct. That's exactly what they teach us in school. But the one of the other barbers in the shop, as soon as the man left, was like, what did he ask you for? And I was like, I reiterated and he was like, Yeah, he definitely wanted you to use like a six on him. I'm like, I don't even have one of those. So like I don't know what to tell you there. He should have just told me to do a scissor cut on him.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

Well, and that's when somebody gives me a he got a free haircut, he did not pay for that. When somebody gives me a number or an indication based on a tool, I immediately ask follow-up questions. It's the what do you want your hair to do? Do you want to be able to redirect it, style it when you put stuff in it? Like those things are like, all right, so not a clipper length.

SPEAKER_03 49:41

Yeah, yeah. I always, as soon as anyone tells me, unless they come in with a very short top already, like if they're already only at finger length, then absolutely you tell me a number, I'll slap that guard on there, and I'll do the top of your head. But if you have longer hair and you tell me you want a clipper on the top of your head, I'm asking a ton of questions. Because I'm new and I'm not doing that. And honestly, depending on how short they then tell me they want it, I'll still end up doing half of it finger over comb. Shear over whatever. You're not cutting with finger over comb. I might be. It's my fake finger combs.

SPEAKER_05 50:22

You mean cheers? Yep, that's for context, uh, audience. Please understand that I have been up since 3 a.m. And it is currently 8 30 at night. Yes. And it's been a long day at work, so we're a little on the goofy side.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Home day.

SPEAKER_05 50:40

Alright, let's wrap it up with anything else that we can think of for like reasons to turn people away, other than like being lazy.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Other than being lazy.

SPEAKER_05 50:52

I will say though, like, anybody who is doing that, I there's been a huge surge in this profession over the last five years, especially, or maybe right before COVID, um, that I see a lot of people leaving the profession in the near future. Like, I don't see a lot of people who have nonchalantly entered the profession because it's been made way easier uh sticking around once they hit their first burnout. Like, I I could definitely see it being like a, oh, if this is your first profession, it's gonna lead you into other things. Yeah. And you're going to leave hair. Yeah. Which, I mean, it's fair. It's a really great building block to fund further education and further career development. Be like, you can fund your way through college. I know people who have done it just by cutting hair.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:38

And end up debt-free. It's great. So it can be a phenomenal stepping stone. And I hope that is the case for anybody who does eventually leave the profession. But there's also people I know who have entered the profession and gone back to the previous profession that they were in before they went to barber school. And that's your life, your journey. Like I get that. But with the huge surge of people that have entered it, I don't see people that same number sticking around long term. Yeah, I feel like that's true. Because I mean, once you get to the certain number situation to have peer pressure, and like the my buddies all did this, or like, oh, I'm going to barber school because uh my buddy, who is a barber, was like, yeah, you're not doing anything else, or you're tired of working for a factory or whatever. Yep. That's like it's way better than that. And I mean, that can be the case. And some people can fall into it like serendipity, and that is in fact their calling in life. I mean, I certainly didn't have a whole lot of planning before coming into this profession. I just kind of happened. Uh, and it worked out. It's great. But that has far more of an influence once you get numbers up to a certain point, then it becomes a oh yeah, like you can go to barber school and you can come work here, and like we could all be buddies, and that's that's that's the thing.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:56

But that's not necessarily the reality of a working environment.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

No, I feel like I feel like in a way, not comparing the two because we deal with two completely different types of demons, but I feel like in a way, teachers and barbers are similar in a sense of like I feel like those that are able to get longevity out of it and like have a passion in it, are those that are like in it and want to be, and not just there for the sake of or the convenience, or there has to be a drive or a passion behind it to be good at it, to be one that people click with and remember and and want to be a part of.

SPEAKER_05 53:39

Definitely because otherwise it's like I could people can tell you when you're going through the motions, yeah, and you're not that deep and you're not connecting, and it's just like you're just shooting the breeze. You could be talking to a wall, and it's no different. Yep. Like that's how much you're giving me.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

Yeah, just running on autopilot.

SPEAKER_05 53:56

But then at the same time, there are people who have never experienced the connection of a barber that loves their profession.

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Oh, fair.

SPEAKER_05 54:04

Like there are people in the world who have never gone to a shop that had that. They've always gone to, you know, uh conveyor belt like corporate chains or you know, their hometown barbers just like an old timer, you know. Oh, he's just been cutting my hair since I was born. But like there's never really a connection. Yeah. You know, it's just sit down and you get what I give you. It's like, oh, that's kind of unfortunate. So when they finally do, and they it's like finding good food for the first time. You thought you hated pork chops because your mom sucked at making them, and then suddenly you have a good one. You're like, I don't hate pork chops. I just hate her pork chops. Like Brussels sprouts. There you go. There is quality in the world, but you don't know it until you're exposed to it.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

Yeah, it can't relate to the Brussels pop part, but you definitely have me at the pork chops part.

SPEAKER_05 54:58

Alright, any parting words for our topic of discussion this week?

SPEAKER_03 55:02

Have boundaries with your clients and feel free to say no when necessary.

SPEAKER_05 55:06

And for better or for worse, don't take other people's opinions to heart whom you've never met. Yeah. And who are making generalizations. Yep. Because maybe that's not you. And that's okay. Or maybe it is you, and that's still okay, because you'll figure it out, or you won't. Yep. And that's life.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Wish you the best.

SPEAKER_05 55:29

Alright, everybody, we will talk to you all next week. Have a good night. Have a good night.