Beyond the Basics: Advanced Training in Hair Professions

Bree and Cassy discuss education opportunities available in the profession, differences in philosophies of various institutions, and the differences between seeking knowledge in barbering vs cosmetology and ways it could improve.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome back to Philosophy of the Barber. This week we are discussing continuing education. Uh, and we can talk about on both sides of the haircut in house because they are very different situations.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Depending on where you are. Now, I would certainly like to begin talking about uh continuing education and the state of affairs on the barber side of the house. Because personally, I feel like it is not promoted as a standard for shop owners in the industry to provide that the way it is in the salon side. Uh I find that being a barber is kind of like being an apprentice, even though you're at a school where it's like you have to be self-driven and seek out that knowledge yourself and not wait or rely on a shop owner to offer that to you. Like you really have to be looking for knowledge. Yeah. Otherwise, you can very easily rest on your laurels and only learn what you learned in school and what you see in the shop you work in.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

And see, I was lucky that I didn't have that experience when I got out of school. In fact, that's kind of what geared me towards the shop that I went to was because it is very uncommon in the barber world to even talk about training after the fact. In-house, at least. Like you said, you'd have to like go, you'd have to be driven to actually seek those things out. But um, I got very lucky in this first shop that I went to fresh out of school, he was very big on training. Because I was already a licensed cosmetologist, he actually was able to have me start there while I was still in barber school, just doing like free haircuts to whoever he could pull in for a free haircut. And we had I had one of the um long-term barbers there, was like kind of like my go-to mentor person. I was paired up with her from the beginning, and we'd take two hours and go all the way through a haircut. We also had a complete like in-training program, like not program, but like it was kind of tagged on the end of our name when you booked with us, so that way you knew that like there might be times during my haircut that I would go over to my mentor and be like, hey, could you come help me out with this? And it was kind of just that's how it works coming fresh out of school. I think it was more so especially geared because he wanted people to learn his method of haircutting also, because kind of everyone does the same haircut there, and it's not from school, it's from learning underneath him.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

I have mixed feelings about that personally.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Correct. Which I do now, also in hindsight. Right. But fresh out of school, I was like, oh, you want to help me continue to learn and not throw me to the wolves? Yes, please, show me your ways.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Well, and that definitely works a lot better if the foundational knowledge on that cutting style is similar in some way to how you learned in school. Yes, yes, but if it's not, that is not a healthy environment for a new barber.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Which luckily, now realizing that there are different ways that people are taught to cut hair in different schools, like my school taught me very similar to the method there. Whereas now that I've seen people that have come from your school, it's completely different. Yeah. You guys cut hair completely, which I didn't even know that that was a thing. I was just like, oh, you you cut hair. No, you guys cut hair completely different from how we cut hair.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Well, I mean, it's it's kind of like the painting. Like, there's there's tons of different techniques. Like you can tons of people can paint. Yeah. But it's like, alright, what techniques work best for you to achieve whatever result you're going for?

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Yeah. Well, and even now, now that I've gotten to see and learn the different techniques and stuff that you guys use, honestly, especially with my regulars, if it's a haircut that I I know how to do and I'm doing all the time, I will mix up my technique and do different things and try different stuff and approach the haircut from the bottom versus the top or whatever the case may be, getting to see the different kinds of ways to cut hair.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Well, especially when it it kind of promotes tool independence. Like, heaven forbid you drop a tool in the middle of a haircut, and oh, nap now that sucker's out of commission, you still have to complete that haircut with the tools you have left. And so, like, that independence is super important when you find yourself in that sort of situation. Yeah. I kind of take it for granted that that was something that was encouraged in my school. I don't realize that that's not something that other people are taught at that level.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah, because you guys go like back to basics, basics. Like you what do you when you're starting, what do you start with in the school?

SPEAKER_02 5:00

So the kit is like professional grade stuff. Like you don't have to worry about like the the the Paul Mitchell like crappy shears or you know, whatever box. But it's minimal tools. So you you get what you need to achieve stuff. So you get a set of shears with blending shears, with your righty or lefty, um, you get a detachable blade clipper, typically cordless, you get an adjustable clipper, uh, and a trimmer, and then you get a three and a half, a one and a half, and the three aught that comes with your detachable, and a five-eighths, and a three and three-quarter, I think. Five eighths might be optional, but definitely a three and three-quarter. So it's like, alright, you got what you need. Yeah, and like, because we're we're taught the the versatility of a one and a half, like a one and a half can act as long as a three and a half if you're using it on its toe. Yeah. And that's just by virtue of the design of that one blade. That principle doesn't apply to any other blade but the one and a half. But that's also the the go-to for doing freehand clipper off the ears and off the collar for a classic haircut.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

And so it's like, alright, cool, you can have a up to a three and a half, a two when it's at an angle, and then a one and a half when it's flat. Yep. And the adjustable covers close to anything from the one and a half down to the three odd. Especially because mostly uh like the fast feed, yeah. Uh, you can adjust that blade to uh leave up to a one A, and then it'll leave a little bit longer than a three-ought. So a lot of times they'll do that for the sake of closing that gap.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

So you won't have that like shadow line that you're gonna be like, but a 1A will take it out. So that allows its maximum difficulty for the duration of your barber school to learn how to cut hair with those minimal tools, and that way if you want to add to your toolkit and buy more blades, you can do that out of your own pocket.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

But they're giving you everything you need.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

And then everything is easier once you learn how to do it with minimal stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Not that I regret my education or anything or how I ended up learning, but I do find it really cool that you guys do learn the back to basics like that and can complete a haircut with just one blade and a comb and really get in there, and the fact that you guys, I've seen so many of you be able to just like carve into the hair beautifully with your blades. Whereas I'm definitely a little bit more timid with those sorts of things and still learning how to get better acquainted with freely using my tool like that. Whereas I, because of my education, rely more on my adjustable for those sorts of things with my play and all that kind of different stuff.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Well, and you also are taught to use guards. Yes. We are not.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah, we're immediately given uh an adjustable with guards.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Well, like our adjustables come with guards, but they are basically like throw that in your box because you're not using it while you're here.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

The only thing we are told about our guards is that anything longer than a four, just use your fingers. That's the only thing we were told about our guards. So, like, we were semi-scolded for pulling if we ever tried to pull out our fives. That's about it.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

No, there's definitely a a discouragement. Like, I mean, guards have a place, and and I find they especially have a place when you're cutting like kinky curly ethnic hair. That is especially a good place to have those. And even like doing more urban-style cuts, like a blowout. Yeah. That's when those are handy. Yeah. But for the most part, we're cutting cut Caucasian hair. Yeah. And I find that blades just they feed.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

They feed nicely. Yep. They do just great all by themselves. I've been using my blades so much more. It's just so much, in my opinion, much more efficient than going back and forth with my adjustable.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Yeah, well, and you don't have to take, you know, five passes over one area to make sure you got all the hairs. Correct. That's just it is what it is. Like, it's one thing to be like, alright, that's the difference in foundational knowledge that we're given in school.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

And I mean that I'm sure that varies on the cosmetology end of the house, though I think it very it is heavily pushed on cosmetology students that you are only being taught in just enough to pass the test. Yes. And that you should rely on wherever you go to work to learn so much more. And that is not the case in barbering. Because it's it's not the case.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

No. It's it's really not. Like the fact that the barber shop that I landed in did training was basically a unicorn shop. Like, that's not how it's done up here. Whereas I because I did my cosmetology program, I backed that with my barber program, so I can completely vouch for how they pushed continued education and getting trainings. Every single salon that came to our school to do like meet and greets and like talk to us about stuff consistently like that was their like selling point. Yeah, that's like the selling point is you get to do these educations and they do they go to these places to do these classes as a salon and blah blah blah blah blah. That's not what they talk about at all in Barber School.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

I feel like part of that might be the culture of being a particular brand salon, being an Avita salon, being a Paul Mitchell salon, and being married to those brands gets you into that brand's education and how to use their products best.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yep. Because usually they the the salon owners are brand educators at some point.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Right, but barbers like shops are just not that that, and even if we just don't have brands that seek out barbershops in that way. Yeah. Like the barber side of the house is super independent. Barbers are like, man, if your stuff sucks, like I'll buy the stuff that's good that I've I that I like, and then I'll get the stuff that you suck at that another brand does better. Um, but when it comes to that like brand loyalty relationship, I have not seen that in barbershops. Like you don't see anybody going, we're an uplift barbershop. And I think that's also one of the problems barbershops have with providing education, is because we don't have those brands and brand loyalty. Like the reps are the brands that I carry, they're not physically in New England, they're not physically on the East Coast at all. Yeah, like I deal with them via email or via phone call. Like, it's not you don't have a rep that's face-to-face with you ever here. Yeah, it's very rare. So it's a lot of times it's on brands to provide education to the people that are purchasing their products. And we just don't have that in the barber industry.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

No, it the only thing I can say is like if you depending on the route that you go, again, it's but it's more just you have to be driven and looking for it, is like when you can take classes and stuff at the expo, and like those are just those are in your face. Like, here's education. Other than that, it's not just jumping out of the woodwork for barbers to find the next thing to be able to learn and do.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Well, and then there's also the issue of at a certain point, it's because I mean, don't get me wrong, uppercut products, they do offer education classes from time to time. And I've sent barbers that worked for me to those classes if they wanted to go. They came back basically telling me that that was a waste of their time because it's stuff barbers already know. Like they're showing you how to cut a haircut, you already know how to cut. Yeah, and when asked about how to effectively use their styling products, the educator didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

I'm sorry, what?

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Oh yeah, he straight up admitted he's like, honestly, guys, like I'm I'm the like cut educator. I I couldn't tell you the most effective way to use this product or whatever. Oh my goodness. I'm just like, so that's why I never sent anybody to education after that. It's like, why am I gonna waste my money and their time when they're not learning anything new? And even when asked a legitimate question, that that educator can't answer it? Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't understand. They flew you out to Boston for this? So, I mean, that bothers me. But um the other part is that the common avenues of professionals finding education classes through like Salon Centric, Cosmoprof, those types of professional-only establishments that have that option are entirely geared towards cosmetology.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Now, once you get to a point in barbering where you don't need the added clipper cutting classes or like that sort of helpful techniques on the barber end, the place you should be going if you want to continue to learn is the salon side of the house.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Like if you want to get better at your long hair cutting, it like being able to do slithering techniques and like those types of complex cuts, that is really where you need to go. Yeah. Yeah, you're not wrong. Because I'm sure the same thing happens for cosmetologists who want to get better at short hair. They're gonna look for barbering classes.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah, yeah, because the only way I mean I can't speak for all the schools around, but like through the school that I went through, like we didn't get a lot of short hair experience. So, like, in order for that to like, I feel like women in well, people in salons to actually like really get good at that, you have to have men coming in. And if you're not having men coming in, you're not getting the practice on it. Like, my I remember even just in school, my book started with men only because veterans' haircuts were free, so like that was just the most common thing at that time, but then very quickly shifted to women's cuts, and then I didn't touch another short haircut the rest of the time that I was in school. It just ended up being all longer stuff, color, all that other stuff, and there wasn't any short hairs coming into my chair.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

I do feel like um one of those reasons f is like what you attract. Like when talking with Courtney, uh, she automatically attracted a lot of short hair. Number one, because she had cut her husband's and son's hair, so she wasn't super uncomfortable cutting shorter hair. But she also has short hair. Yes. So that visual really brings people be like, oh, well, you have short hair, so you must be able to cut short hair. Which there's a break in logic there, but we'll take it for what it is, okay? So you and I both being females that rock short haircuts, it's a lot easier for people to sit with us because of that. It's kind of like a guy wanting to sit with the barber with the beard because he wants a beard trim.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yes. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Even though we know that we're the ones that make the beard look good.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

I always tell people, uh, I have trimmed more beards than you will ever grow.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

But I I definitely agree because I feel like even when I'm like looking for, not that I like am seeking out a new hairdresser often or have in my life, but like that is things that you look for and kind of things you make note of. Like you wouldn't want someone disheveled or anything like that, just like we've talked about with appearance and stuff. So like it goes into like trust of what you have on your head too.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I agree. First impressions. Same thing with like color on my head. Like, people have more confidence in my ability to do color, number one, because I have crazy color, but then I also tell them, yes, I do my own. Yes. And if you can pull that off, yeah. If you can hold a mirror for that long, doing it on somebody else's head, way easier. Which is true. Unless they have absurdly long hair, and then that is a totally different manual. Now, I will say that from because we lack in the barbering industry that post-school foundational education, unless you're in a solid shop that has multiple barbers, like the one you were first in, that were able to check your haircuts and help you grow with those types of techniques. Um it's important for young barbers entering a shop to number one, hold themselves to a higher standard and push themselves. Yeah. Like I remember the first couple of years I was cutting. One thing I would do because I struggled with like the transition of the crown. Yep. Like I knew how to execute it with a clipper, but I wanted to be able to better my shear work and my shear and comb technique to be able to do that. So I would take like five minutes during the haircut and practice my shear work on the crown area to have that good transition, and then like at the end of that five minutes, if I wasn't happy with my work, I would go back with the clipper and like polish it off and be like, Alright, it looks good, so we're good to go into the the rest of the haircut. But like, that's something I made a point to challenge myself with every haircut, and I'd made a time limit that way. It was still like their time is being still respected, I'm not getting stuck on a small detail, yeah, yeah. And then like spiraling on the rest of the haircut. So I think that's important for barbers to like hold themselves to that and like be that self-driven. It's like, hey, if you know you have a weakness, alright, well, allot yourself a time to practice.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

I will say if like I know some people will go like the the YouTube route to like learn how to do hair and like what they're doing and stuff, and not that that not that there's anything wrong with that, but I would highly recommend that if like that's the avenue that you're trying to like learn when you're getting into a barber shop and stuff, start with the foundational stuff still. Don't go in. I feel like sometimes, well, just a couple of barbers that I've encountered will see these like Instagram videos of these wild haircuts, and they're talking about trying to execute them, and I'm like, you still can't even get out your skin line, so maybe you just pump the brakes a little bit and get your foundation down. I feel like it's super important to get like your basics in and get the foundation of like what you're doing, and then be able to just work off from there and tang it and play with texture and do all the things and try different tools in different areas.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Well, and I having had no haircutting experience prior to going to my barber school and being taught a particular type of cutting technique, going to YouTube during barber school for me would have done nothing for me but confuse the crap out of me. Correct. Because we don't put in lines, we don't push lines, we like we don't go from the bottom up unless it's like a freehand clipper preserving length situation. Like when it comes to fades, that is not how we do it. So, in fact, I couldn't really look at those types of you know, the Instagram charts of like the lines of like this length, this length, this length. Those made zero sense to me until after barber school. In fact, until like a year or two out of barber school, once I was confident and I knew all of the things that I learned, yeah. Then I started to like try and wrap my head around those types of things, and I was like, oh, okay, I see. Now, and then like the way of doing it with like skipping steps and then like going through the middle. Yeah, like that's a whole nother like that took me a bit. I was like 'cause if you're trying to teach somebody that from like day one, yeah, that would have been so difficult for me to wrap my head around. So it It all depends on like where you're being taught and who's teaching you. If you can understand that with no prior knowledge, power to you.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

But not me. No, I I very much had to like get my hair cutting style down, like from going from school to like learning from a different kind of educator, and then like making it my own style because I had to find if I do better going from the top or going from the bottom or meeting in the middle. Like I tried all the different ways to see what felt more comfortable to me, and then I've now been able to expand and do playoff of different haircuts and stuff like that. There's still some that like not scare me, but like there's a couple different hairstyles that I'll get in my chair that I'm like, oh crap, I gotta take my time and just work this good. Make you sweat a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Especially since, like, because they're usually not my regular, also, I don't have a lot of those, not intentionally, but just coincidentally, don't have a lot of burst fades or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Nature of the area we live in.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Yes. And so like when I occasionally or a crop, I did a crop the other day. I've maybe done two or three crops in my whole time as a barber. You know what I mean? It's just not done, and this kid had such thick hair. So when I saw he his hair was down over his ears, and he came in with a high and tight crop, one and like a picture of a high and tight crop, and I was like, okay. I just kind of breathed for a second. I was like, alright, just I know what to do. You know what I mean? So I was just like, alright, now put your just put your knowledge into work and you can do this. But they'll always, I feel like, make my stomach tighten up just a little bit. Not as bad as the flat dog, but oh god, no. Definitely don't want one of them. I mean, I'll take one if I have to. As long as they know that they just have to be patient with me. Well, they'll call for a check. Yes, exactly. Yep. Because no matter how many years you're in the profession, you can still ask for help. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

The bobs, the 45 degrees that I get, like, I get those 45 degrees because I don't cut it the way a stylist cuts a 45 degree. Like, that's why they come to me. Because I do not I don't cut it at all that way. I'm using the clipper, I'm going as short as they want on that nape. Yep. And I'm cutting it dry, baby. I want to see what that hair does in real life.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

I know, and it's funny because I would go about mine very differently. Having my prior stylist experience, well, stylist education. And I remember I got one of your ladies one time that gets their haircut like that. I did, granted, had not seen her haircut from you previously. She sat with me, I did her haircut, she was very happy with it. But then the next time you did her haircut, I was like, that is not at all what she looked like when she left when I did her hair. That's a completely different haircut. She was still very happy with both, but completely different haircut. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Mine definitely lasts them the longest.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

The way they want it.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Yes. They want that length. Because they are low maintenance women. Like, I just I just want enough to be like, boom, I'm a lady. Yeah. And boom, I'm a lady. Just not have to do anything. Yeah. The one that you saw has to straighten her hair. But I love it. I love it when she comes in and it's not straightened. I'm just like, oh, it just looks so nice. I can't imagine. But yeah, it's definitely we'll say unorthodox, because that's not how I was taught necessarily to cut it, but that's what works for me. Yeah. Because those were definitely my my pucker cuts. Yeah. Fair enough. Once I got over the flat top thing, like once I got like 50 of those under my belt, it was like, alright, 45. So why do I get so many 45? Because I don't say no. Because I need to challenge myself. That's why I don't say no. So it's like, sure, bring it on. And some ladies like it. I'm like, cool. Awesome. That means this works. Well, because I mean, that is like the number one thing they complain about is like a stylist won't go as short as they want.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

I will say that I that is a lot of what I'll get from some honestly, some of the just women in general that want shorter hair. Honestly. I was gonna say older generation, but even even the younger people, they mention how stylists are always so hesitant to do like big chops or just real short or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 26:50

Or or doing anything below a one. Yeah. Like that seems to be the line of comfort for them. It's like anything shorter than a one, nope, not happen. But also, uh wanna say maybe it's because the the education is so heavily focused on cutting wet hair. And clippers aren't great with wet hair.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah. Fair enough. They're not great with wet hair at all. But yeah, because stylists are very sh usually very shear dependent. Because that's one thing. In fact, I actually pulled out, I almost ended up using uh clipper over comb for my crop, but because I have my more ingrained stylist techniques, I gravitate strictly to shear over comb all the time.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

I'm I'm very shear and comb heavy.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, I'm super shear and comb.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Well, and it's it's far more if you don't have uh somebody that's like moving uncontrollably, yeah. I mean, I I don't think I ever really use clipper over comb unless I'm removing bulk. Like somebody's coming, like your crop, who came in with a ton. It's like, alright, if I need to find some ears, I'll do some, you know, just let's take off this weight because we know it's going away anyway. Yeah, yeah. But when it comes to moving, I tend to do finger and clipper for safety of all involved. Yeah. But otherwise, like I have far more control of the length I'm leaving when I'm using shear and comb than anything else. I don't have to pop any guards on and off, I don't have to pop any blades on and off. It's just I have full control with my hands.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

And I feel like I get a lot more freedom and play with it with my shears.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Well, and we also like I'll do shear and comb more often than finger and shear. Yes. Because that in school was like heavily uh encouraged because like it's you're acquiring muzzle memory, and that is one of those barber-specific techniques of shear and comb. Because I mean it's really efficient.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Listen, I watch you do it all the time, and I've practiced, and I can't get it. Well, part of that is the the walking across that's what it's called. There's a name for it? Yeah, there's a name? I didn't know it was called something. That's even cooler. Now I definitely need to learn it.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

But part of that is that you don't have like long shears. Yeah. So that puts you at a disadvantage of being able to do something like that.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Oh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah. Because it like the whole purpose of doing the shear and comb aspect of it rather than finger and shear is you have far more surface area on the comb holding up the hair, which is why you need a larger shear to be able to cover that whole area. Oh, that makes so much more sense. Rather than finger and shear, you can just use the small shears because it's like between the end of your finger and your second knuckle. Yeah. That's the only spot to keep the even tension. Yeah. It's totally different when you're using a comb.

unknown 29:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Alright, now I don't feel as bad for not being able to get it. Yeah, no. I will never use my tiny shears to do shear and comb technique. Unless it's like on the sides a little bit, and I'm just like cleaning up a little. Yeah. But for the most part, no. Big shears.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

I need some big shears.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Some seven, eights, nines.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

I don't need nines. No, nobody really needs nines. I didn't even know they made nines. Oh yeah. I knew they made eights.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

I mean, they make some long shears. Are you seeing a curved shears? I was gonna say they have those curved ones. Those are for the animal side of the house. Yes. But some people have taken to using them. I've seen some people use them. I mean, depending on like, especially with like big kinky curly hair. Sure, you can you can probably do some nice carving of a fro with that. Yeah. But I'd say the vast majority of the time it's unnecessary. Especially because you can't you can't do sh shear and comb with a curved shear. Sorry. Because unless your comb is also curved. Huh.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

I was just picturing you trying to do the walking thing with curved shears. Nope, not gonna happen. Nope.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

But there's also like that's one of those things about education, like learning the tools that are out there. Yeah. Like, did you note that double blending shears are a thing? Okay, what? So what do you mean double blending? So like both blades are the teeth.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Oh. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

So they're way less aggressive than your average, like 52 teeth uh blending shear. And they don't leave a line.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

So if you're like using them on long hair, you know you can like cut and then pull down and you see where it was. Double blenders you don't see.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Oh my gosh, I didn't even What? See? There's always things to learn. This is why education's necessary.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

But that came from a really great shear sharpener professional. Yeah. Who also sells shears. Like, I wouldn't know half the stuff I know about shears if it wasn't for her. Yeah. That's kind of the unfortunate part of like, see, it's not just product lines that have a responsibility, I think, to provide education. It's also tool companies. Mm-agreed. Because I mean, you go to hair shows and stuff, and yeah, Andis and Noster and all of them have platform artists that are showing you how to use the latest clipper and techniques. I mean, I went I remember going to my first hair show back in the day. Uh and this was before the whole uh Babeless like FX uh line and everything came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is before that. Yeah. Uh so but they had the Ferrari clippers. So they had Ferrari motors in the Beapless clippers. Well, they were like at their booth they were showing technique for finger and clipper. And they were like, because they're basically toting that oh, this is you know new technique because we're now cordless, and this, you know, we're we're dealing with like early night batteries and into the first lithium-ion batteries. Man, I'm showing my age. Uh and they're like, oh, new techniques, like check this out, and they're like putting in texture with the clipper and all that kind of stuff. I had already started like collecting some old barber textbooks, and my barber school had access to some of the vintage ones, and I pulled up like uh one from 1911 that had pictures in it. Oh my god. And this is like you know, when electricity is just starting to be introduced in various ways. Yeah, yeah, there was a picture of A. Moller demonstrating clipper over finger with the new electric clipper motor. Oh my gosh, yes. So, as much as they want to be like new techniques, there's no new technique in barbering. No, you just have to find thousands of years. You just have to find the old ones. Yes. It's a rediscover. Yes, yes. If you want to go forward, go back.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Now, again, here's the the contrast between the hairstylist world and the barber world. Cosmetology school, within our first month of our program, we have a shear guy who's dedicated to the Empire schools. That he's a traveling shear guy, shear sharpener. Um, but he comes in and does an education where he teaches you about the metals and the different countries they come from and what the all that means, and like how to identify good shears versus bad shears and all the different sorts of things. I did not know about double blending shears though, which is wild because I've seen some weird blending shears in his books. But literally that same guy, I went to the same school, just a different campus, different program. He did not visit the barber program.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

That is so uncool. Mm-hmm. Because I mean we should be using shears uh just as often. Maybe not for the whole haircut, but for part of it.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah. I said a partial epiphany. Maybe he didn't come to my class because we were at crossovers. Were all of you crossovers? Yes. Like Well, so there was a barber class and then a crossover class. Oh. I never heard of the city. Yeah, yes. Um so he did not visit our class. I know that he visited the cosmetology girls only because we were given the option to have our shears sharpened while he was there. But I don't believe he visited the barbers. I don't know though.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

My shear lady has I've known her since barber school, so she came to the barber school all the time, and she very much showed us like how to test them with wet tissue, like how to have proper tension, where the blade should, you know, stop and have tension.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Um how it should fit in your hand, to see like what sizes you'd be fit best with your hand.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Uh that no, that was more left to our comfort. Like she would bring in her selection and like we could test them out and feel them and like see what we liked, what we didn't like, and like holes being too big, whether or not I mean we'd certainly had a discouragement of uh thumb and finger inserts uh in our education. Because I mean technically it's not necessary, but uh but yeah, it was definitely like uh you know, see how your fingers are holding the holes, or like you know, some of them have the the arc in the middle between your fingers, or you know, what kind of tang you prefer. Like I have blending shoes, I have two tangs. I don't know why it makes any sense.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

No, the I mean, unless you're an octopus, it's the the extra tangent.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

But so like there was plenty of opportunity to ask questions and really like figure out what you like, what you don't like. Swivel thumbs out things.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

I fell in love with the swivel thumb. I love my swivel thumb.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

I will say that when I was in barber school, uh, swivel thumb was not common. I believe it. I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

I'm so old. We have when the shear man came to the cosmetology school, he obviously he set up um if we wanted to buy shears from him because we were students, we could do a payment plan so that we could pay them off, and that actually COVID happened during that education, and he actually gave me the option to pause payment during COVID because we weren't in school. I know, but I was like, no, just keep I'm still working, keep taking my money so that way I can have my shears when I come back. And they were at the school when I got back, and I've swivel thumbed ever since. And when I the one time I had to use those loners and it didn't have a swivel thumb, I didn't even know what to do with my hand. It took me so many haircuts to like get used to it, and I still wasn't really like my uh my thumb didn't know what the hell to do.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

The irony being that of the two pairs of swivel thumb shears I have, I'd next to never utilize the swivel thumb function.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Really? Really, I didn't realize how much I did until I couldn't. I it it just became it's just so natural that where I'm angled sometimes, I didn't even realize how often I used it until I had a stiff one, and I was like, oh, this is I don't know what to do now.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Oh yeah, I am give me just a the hunk of metal shears with no ability to pivot. And I I'm fine. Yep, I'm good. I got my attention everywhere it needs to be. I do wish more product lines would at least collaborate with tool companies from time to time. Andis does here and there. I think uh Uppercut had a special edition clipper. I think it was with Andis. Could be wrong. But like they go hand in hand. Yeah. Like there's just so many marketing opportunities on the barber side of the house that are common practice on the salon side of the house that nobody just seems to want to expand to the other side. It's like, why? Are you afraid? Are you intimidated by barbers? You think they're going to bite you? Yeah. Now, I mean, don't get me wrong, at the very least in the barber school I went to. In the area, we certainly have a reputation as new graduates of being a little bit on the confident side. Some might misconstrue that as cockiness, but like I mean did you when you took your barber exam, did you have anybody there that was possibly from my barber school? No, just just Empire and uh and Apprentice?

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, it was a very small group. There was only two people in there that I didn't actually go to class with.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

So, like because the focus of the education in my school was not getting you to pass the test, it was getting you ready to work in the industry. Yeah. Most people come out of there because I mean they teach you to pass the test, but that's like the last few weeks. Yeah. Not a big deal. It's like, alright, here's how you set up your kit. This is what you're gonna have to do, this is the mock exam, bada bing, bada blah. But that has really nothing to do with what they're teaching you. Yeah. I mean, obviously it checks the the boxes that need to be checked, yeah. Being a licensed barber, but like that's not what the the goal is when teaching you.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

I was gonna say end goal for your school seems to be like leaving there with a success in your ability.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yes, it's being able to execute good, not necessarily great, but good haircuts within a timely manner. So half hour, 45 minutes, being able to do it. And I mean, I'd say that that's important. Yeah. I wish more schools would have that as a goal. Agreed. Because holding yourself to the low standard of minimal competency that the state requires is like, really? I'm paying you 20 grand to teach me just how to pass the test so that I can do this safely. Not even well. Just safely. Boggles my mind.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

I I find it so funny when people are um shocked to hear that you don't have that our license has nothing to do with our ability to cut hair. Like as clients. Well, ability to cut hair like well. Yes. Yes, fair. Um I feel like people that aren't in the industry are just under the assumption that since we are licensed professionals, that we are just automatically good, great at cutting hair, and the bewilderment on their face when I'm like, no, license is the top priority is safety and sanitation. Top priority. Being able to cut hair well, it's a backburner thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

Well, that's also because it's so subjective and like unable to be measured. Correct. Yes. So it's like and honestly, would you trust the government's opinion on what's good? No. So what would even if it did that?

SPEAKER_00 42:34

You can't even get your rules right. Or consistent.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

That's the thing with government. Stuff's always changing. Yes. But yeah, that's I mean, at least the safety and sanitation aspect of it is the measurable aspect of it. Everything else is subjective, because I could go somewhere and get a haircut, and I could think that it's like the best thing I've ever experienced, and you could go to the exact same person, get the exact same haircut, and think it's utter crap compared to what you've experienced. Correct, yeah. Because I mean, my mom cut uh cooks pork chops way differently than your mom cur cooks pork chops. Yes. So but they're both cooked pork chops. Yep. They could very well be good or bad or indifferent. So a haircut's a haircut. Mm-hmm. But on the person, it could be good, it could be bad. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Outside of a hair show, where do you think you'll go to find more education? I mean, realistically, there's a couple things that I've looked into um as like potential long term goals to pick up and uh get into my tool belt, and I'd actually I think I'd have to go out of state for them. Wow. Mm hmm. Um I looked into micro pigmentation and there was uh classes in I think Boston, of course.

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Well, and that's outside of our license anyway, so like that's totally separate things.

unknown 44:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yep. But there's just not for certain things there's just not much.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Right. I will say that when because I have my instructor's license, when I first got it, there was the state requirement of continuing education to keep that license active. Yep. Uh I want to say 24 hours every two years of continuing education. And going to a hair show counted, that was like, you know, eight hours for a day ticket. You know, that sort of thing. But I mean, really anything that you could apply to the hair industry would count towards it. So, like, I mean, if you wanted to take a psychology course at your local community college, that would certainly count. Yeah. I would hope that would be more than 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Uh, but I did free education through Pravana on their website. Oh, okay. So I got knowledgeable because that was the Vivid's color line that I started off using when I was in barber school and then continued it on because rainbows, baby. Uh so I got certified in their entire color line through their free education online. So they sent me a certificate and everything. So that was one way I did it. I went to some hair shows. I did sign up for a couple of classes through Salon Centric.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

So that's what I've done in the past. Yeah. It'd be a little more creative back then.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

And I will say that my granted, it's not necessarily something I would gear towards because I feel like it would be more helpful for a beginning barber. But like my previous boss still does, like, he'll pull barbers in to do educations and he'll like advertise for whoever to come in and be a part of it, whether you're in school, already in the profession, or whatever, you can come watch the education and hang out and all that stuff, but it's that's not happening everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Right. Well, and there are a few shops and salons uh that have the people that I know that offer education. Um they'll host different educators. Uh, you know, there's one in Portsmouth, there's one in Merrimack, a couple of Merrimack, um, and they I mean, obviously education costs money. Yeah. So bring that person in. So, you know, tickets cost. But to have a space that's large enough to be able to have several people that way, it's great. And some of the people here in New Hampshire are educators for brands. So, especially being such a rinky dink state, like that's in nobody's mind. Yeah. Um, it's great to have those types of opportunities. Same thing with like Uplift. Uplift is willing to uh do education in spots in shops. And I've I've gone to um there's a brand called Exotics that is it was started by Usher's Barber.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

And they this was like in the early days when Jay Majors was still starting off the Connecticut Barber Expo. It was still in like West Haven, I want to say. So it was on the smaller side. Um, but I went to some of the education in in like Worcester and Revere and like some of the smaller barber and sneaker battles that Massachusetts was having back then. Like I would I would go to those. And that that's where I learned I was like, this is this is just not my vibe. But I went because that's what was available, yeah. Um but yeah, he that was great education. Some of them were just like in somebody's shop. Yep. They brought um barbers down from Canada, and I mean these people have blown up since oh cool. Yeah, become like the the celebrity judges for hair battles and all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

So from the sounds of it, I think the barber world needs to we need to try to step up a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 48:09

I think over the last six, eight years things have started to step up. But it's definitely being progressive for sure. Yeah, the I think the momentum needs to be kept up and like hold ourselves to a higher standard. Like, what do you have to offer? And not just the same old stuff. But then again, I also want to call out educational institutions that aren't holding themselves to a higher standard. Yeah. It's like, don't get me wrong, I understand it's a business. But is is this a business that you're trying to elevate the profession, or is this just a business where you're trying to, you know, just make your money? Yeah. And give people their certificate or get that government money. Yeah. Because that that's really a chunk. And I I firmly believe that that's one of the reasons why the the numbers of people who successfully enter the industry after school is so low. Yes. Is because you can just sign your name on the dotted line and get that government money. Mm-hmm. I think that's sad. Like, I feel like you should be more invested in your students.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:23

And their success.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Rather than just like resigning yourself to the statistic.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

Or like just making sure that they pass the board.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

Covered what I've gotten on my soapbox to cover. So all right. Well, you guys have a wonderful night. Have a good night. We'll see y'all next week.